Comments on: carolina in my mind…as well as in actuality http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality News about Alison Bechdel's comic strip Dykes to Watch Out For, and her graphic novel Fun Home Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:39:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=168 By: Melan http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-301268 Melan Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:46:23 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-301268 ?? ? ????? ??????, ??? ?????????, ???????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???? ;) ?? ? ????? ??????, ??? ?????????, ???????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???? ;)

]]> By: Timoty http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-41363 Timoty Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:16:08 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-41363 cool blog! cool blog!

]]> By: Jana C.H. http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-34299 Jana C.H. Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:05:14 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-34299 When I was eight, I refused to believe another eight-year-old who insisted she believed in Santa Claus. I was sure she had to be kidding me. Maybe really LITTLE kids, whose parents for some inexplicable reason tried to pass off make-believe as fact, might possibly believe Santa was real, but surely not anyone who had made it all the way to the third grade. By "really little kids" I meant three- or four-year-olds who hadn't been to kindergarten and were so unbelievably sheltered that they got infomation only from their strangely warped parents who (for reasons best known to themselves) purposely deluded their kids on this point. I learned many years later that my friend may have been traumatized by my revelation. I say now, and would have certainly said at eight, that it was about time. As a knowledgable 8-year-old of the year 1962, I would have considered it an insult to my intelligence to be told that make-believe was real-- and I loved make-believe. Still do. I'm told I used to pretend to be a Christmas tree, turning my lights on and off, though I don't remember that. I feel strongly about this. I see no reason to tell children of any age that Santa Claus, mermaids, or even Hell are anything other than make-believe. Most make-believe is fun, some is scary-fun, and some is just scary-mean, like Hell. Enjoy it or ignore it, but there's no need to lie about what is and isn't real. Jana C.H. Seattle Saith E.G. Forbes: Never spoil a good story with too much truth. When I was eight, I refused to believe another eight-year-old who insisted she believed in Santa Claus. I was sure she had to be kidding me. Maybe really LITTLE kids, whose parents for some inexplicable reason tried to pass off make-believe as fact, might possibly believe Santa was real, but surely not anyone who had made it all the way to the third grade. By “really little kids” I meant three- or four-year-olds who hadn’t been to kindergarten and were so unbelievably sheltered that they got infomation only from their strangely warped parents who (for reasons best known to themselves) purposely deluded their kids on this point.

I learned many years later that my friend may have been traumatized by my revelation. I say now, and would have certainly said at eight, that it was about time. As a knowledgable 8-year-old of the year 1962, I would have considered it an insult to my intelligence to be told that make-believe was real– and I loved make-believe. Still do. I’m told I used to pretend to be a Christmas tree, turning my lights on and off, though I don’t remember that.

I feel strongly about this. I see no reason to tell children of any age that Santa Claus, mermaids, or even Hell are anything other than make-believe. Most make-believe is fun, some is scary-fun, and some is just scary-mean, like Hell. Enjoy it or ignore it, but there’s no need to lie about what is and isn’t real.

Jana C.H.
Seattle
Saith E.G. Forbes: Never spoil a good story with too much truth.

]]> By: Aunt Soozie http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33978 Aunt Soozie Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:53:45 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33978 yeah...I think she may be on to something there... and the loch ness monster of course... yeah…I think she may be on to something there…
and the loch ness monster of course…

]]> By: Maggie Jochild http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33961 Maggie Jochild Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:52:42 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33961 P.S. I'm hopin' she's right about mermaids, aren't you? P.S. I’m hopin’ she’s right about mermaids, aren’t you?

]]> By: Maggie Jochild http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33959 Maggie Jochild Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:50:59 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33959 Yeah, I hear ya. I have a request in with my godson that he not use the word evil to describe people -- we try to identify behavior as "causing evil" rather than pigeonhole people, because of the whole powerlessness aspect. And he works hard at it, although it seems like the other boys his age use evil as a term constantly. Then one day he asked me, didn't I think Dick Cheney was evil? Well, FUCK. Yeah, I hear ya. I have a request in with my godson that he not use the word evil to describe people — we try to identify behavior as “causing evil” rather than pigeonhole people, because of the whole powerlessness aspect. And he works hard at it, although it seems like the other boys his age use evil as a term constantly. Then one day he asked me, didn’t I think Dick Cheney was evil? Well, FUCK.

]]> By: Aunt Soozie http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33888 Aunt Soozie Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:11:21 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33888 Oh, thanks for clarifying Maggie. I get it. We had an incident like the Christ one with our daughter as well...not as vivid but a kid at school said something about hell and the devil and I had to reassure her that she was okay even if we didn't agree with that particular version of spirituality in our house. We also almost got, uhm, crucified ourselves because in kindergarden the kid started getting into what is real and what isn't...age appropriate I know, it started with Mermaids and I dodged her with, do you think there really are mermaids? there could be but I've never seen one I told her. She questioned me repeatedly about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the like, she kept using logic, how could one person... people can't really fly... reindeers can't really fly...etc. and finally I gave in and said, yeah, you're right, those things aren't real. I couldn't help it..it seemed too bizarre to lie about it. She did however decide that Mermaids WERE real and I didn't correct that but then it happened!! She told another kid that Santa wasn't real and that's when the whole neighborhood started whispering about us like we were spoilers and pagans and evil doers. They didn't care that we were lesbos but when our kid told another kid that Santa was a fantasy, oy vay...we were almost forced outta town. I explained to her that some people want their kids to "believe" and that it is a fun and special thing for some families and that we shouldn't tell other kids, let their parents decide if they wanna tell them or not, about Santa being make believe and then she went back and told that kid that Santa is real and she was only joking and all was well, sort of, I don't think they ever really forgave us...or me, for giving in and telling the kid the truth. I can't help it. I'm a bad liar. and like I said, it just seemed bizarre to maintain the lie when she was naturally questioning and figuring it out...and she asked me directly... Okay, enough said about all of that... Oh, thanks for clarifying Maggie. I get it.
We had an incident like the Christ one with our daughter as well…not as vivid but a kid at school said something about hell and the devil and I had to reassure her that she was okay even if we didn’t agree with that particular version of spirituality in our house.

We also almost got, uhm, crucified ourselves because in kindergarden the kid started getting into what is real and what isn’t…age appropriate I know, it started with Mermaids and I dodged her with, do you think there really are mermaids? there could be but I’ve never seen one I told her. She questioned me repeatedly about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the like, she kept using logic, how could one person… people can’t really fly… reindeers can’t really fly…etc. and finally I gave in and said, yeah, you’re right, those things aren’t real. I couldn’t help it..it seemed too bizarre to lie about it. She did however decide that Mermaids WERE real and I didn’t correct that but then it happened!! She told another kid that Santa wasn’t real and that’s when the whole neighborhood started whispering about us like we were spoilers and pagans and evil doers. They didn’t care that we were lesbos but when our kid told another kid that Santa was a fantasy, oy vay…we were almost forced outta town.
I explained to her that some people want their kids to “believe” and that it is a fun and special thing for some families and that we shouldn’t tell other kids, let their parents decide if they wanna tell them or not, about Santa being make believe and then she went back and told that kid that Santa is real and she was only joking and all was well, sort of, I don’t think they ever really forgave us…or me, for giving in and telling the kid the truth.

I can’t help it. I’m a bad liar. and like I said, it just seemed bizarre to maintain the lie when she was naturally questioning and figuring it out…and she asked me directly…

Okay, enough said about all of that…

]]> By: Maggie Jochild http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33878 Maggie Jochild Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:15:30 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33878 Good point, Aunt Soozie. Being the godmother of a 8-year-old now, I'd be completely resistant to him being given the details of oral sex. Or intercourse, or any other details. Just not necessary yet, and yeah, I'd be livid at him getting it from camp. Just as I was livid when he was four and some fucker Christian told him details of the crucifixion and then went on to introduce the idea of hell and got being willing to punish human being by burning them eternally. He had nightmares for a long time, and kept asking me and his parents if we were SURE it wasn's true, how could so many people believe it if it weren't true, why would god hurt us that way, what good did Christ dying reall do, etc. He was too young to be exposed to that particular version of necrophilia. Or, as Alix sang (a lyric he heard this year and especially loved) "Christ the white man's fantasy, it's just his stupid S&M". And child abuse, if you force it on kids. When my daughter was 8, however, I was 25 and not yet out as an incest survivor. The survivor movement had not yet started (I would be one of its originators a year later). In the name of sexual honesty and liberation, we in my community (young mostly working-class lesbian-feminists) did not have many, if any, filters on our discussions or behavior. In particular, since the only "real" sex was heterosexual (which meant a boy sticking his thing somewhere), we went out of our way to honor the contradiction, sex involving mouths and pleasure without possession. WAY more sex in daily life and conversation than I see now (yet, interestingly, the Faderman revision is that we were "anti-sex", presumably because we questioned male sexuality which is, still, the only "real" sex.) Anyhow, I was, yes, jolted by her song and demanded to know if she'd heard it from a counselor -- no, it was taught to her by other girls at camp, some of the 11-year-olds. And there was no accompanying demonstration of the lyrics. I left it at that, which I would not do now. But I was not in recovery yet, myself. Good point, Aunt Soozie. Being the godmother of a 8-year-old now, I’d be completely resistant to him being given the details of oral sex. Or intercourse, or any other details. Just not necessary yet, and yeah, I’d be livid at him getting it from camp. Just as I was livid when he was four and some fucker Christian told him details of the crucifixion and then went on to introduce the idea of hell and got being willing to punish human being by burning them eternally. He had nightmares for a long time, and kept asking me and his parents if we were SURE it wasn’s true, how could so many people believe it if it weren’t true, why would god hurt us that way, what good did Christ dying reall do, etc. He was too young to be exposed to that particular version of necrophilia. Or, as Alix sang (a lyric he heard this year and especially loved) “Christ the white man’s fantasy, it’s just his stupid S&M”. And child abuse, if you force it on kids.

When my daughter was 8, however, I was 25 and not yet out as an incest survivor. The survivor movement had not yet started (I would be one of its originators a year later). In the name of sexual honesty and liberation, we in my community (young mostly working-class lesbian-feminists) did not have many, if any, filters on our discussions or behavior. In particular, since the only “real” sex was heterosexual (which meant a boy sticking his thing somewhere), we went out of our way to honor the contradiction, sex involving mouths and pleasure without possession. WAY more sex in daily life and conversation than I see now (yet, interestingly, the Faderman revision is that we were “anti-sex”, presumably because we questioned male sexuality which is, still, the only “real” sex.) Anyhow, I was, yes, jolted by her song and demanded to know if she’d heard it from a counselor — no, it was taught to her by other girls at camp, some of the 11-year-olds. And there was no accompanying demonstration of the lyrics. I left it at that, which I would not do now. But I was not in recovery yet, myself.

]]> By: Aunt Soozie http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33853 Aunt Soozie Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:42:16 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33853 hmmmm...I dunno, I'd have been pretty annoyed if my kid came home singing a song about oral sex at eight years old... a happy song about vaginas would be fine but kissing on 'em is more for grownups...in my opinion...being the therapist, social worker, childhood protector that I am...I'd have been livid I think. My kid wasn't aware of the notion of oral sex at eight years old and I think she is still naive about some of those type of details...but, then, we live in a small town and her tv watching is pretty well screened by yours truly...and this is clearly a different era than the one Maggie's girl grew up in...maybe kids were privy to more in those free and wild times of communal living and new found feminism??? hmmmm…I dunno, I’d have been pretty annoyed if my kid came home singing a song about oral sex at eight years old…
a happy song about vaginas would be fine but kissing on ‘em is more for grownups…in my opinion…being the therapist, social worker, childhood protector that I am…I’d have been livid I think.

My kid wasn’t aware of the notion of oral sex at eight years old and I think she is still naive about some of those type of details…but, then, we live in a small town and her tv watching is pretty well screened by yours truly…and this is clearly a different era than the one Maggie’s girl grew up in…maybe kids were privy to more in those free and wild times of communal living and new found feminism???

]]> By: little gator http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33588 little gator Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:20:07 +0000 http://dykestowatchoutfor.com/carolina-in-my-mindas-well-as-in-actuality#comment-33588 The version I heard had the line "some like to wake up to bacon and eggs, I like to wake up with my head between her legs" But I heard it from a man. The version I heard had the line

“some like to wake up to bacon and eggs, I like to wake up with my head between her legs”

But I heard it from a man.

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