DTWOF episode #514
October 28th, 2007 | Uncategorized
Hey. I’m putting this up a few days early since it’s Halloween-themed. And I’ve decided to go back to my regular biweekly schedule. It was nearly as much work doing one strip as two. So my little hiatus is over–episode 515 will go up in two weeks.
211 Responses to “DTWOF episode #514”
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Nice strip. Love the not-trying-too-hard-but-so-authentic wit in the costumes.
(doing a happy dance for return to twice monthly strips… though sorry that it wasn’t more of a respite, Alison>
Nice strip. Love the not-trying-too-hard-but-so-authentic wit in the costumes.
(Oops, sorry for double posting, in trying to fix pointy bracket problem)
Woohoo! It must be a little, um, awkward to “dance” in that bathroom stall there.
I didn’t recognize Ginger at first,either,and probably would have reacted just like Sydney did….Does anyone else think Sparrow looks more like Condi than Hillary? And at first I thought the UPS guy was Jerry the mechanic.
This strip totally reminds me of those occasional “we interrupt our regular programming” strips that appear every once in awhile, where everybody reveals their sordidly inverse “real” personalities. Stuart in leather, Sydney drooling into her scotch, Mo and her anti-war militia…
Except this strip is even funnier. I laughed so hard I almost sprayed tea all over the computer, much like Sydney in her shock at meeting Ginger for Jehovah. Tomorrow I’m going out to buy myself a bag of candy for Halloween.
I love it. I just love it soooooooo much.
Now I have to go work on my Halloween costume
I agree that Sparrow has more of a Condi vibe – I think it’s the pearls and the grim exhaustion around the eyes. Hillary, on the other hand, would be smiling maniacally, trying to prove to everyone in the room that she’s capable of human emotion and a right laugh, too.
Totally Condi. No doubt. Down to the hair parting.
I’m not sure who Stuart is costumed as, but do we not have Carlos dressed as Dumbledore–could be very topical what with the old man being outed by Rowling in the last week or so…
Gotta say I’m THRILLED there’ll be a new strip in two weeks! While I was glad you took the time if you needed it, I’m (selfishly) quite pleased to go back to a twice-weekly DTWOF dose!
Love the episode, as usual.
I love Janis’s comment. By golly, she is taller than Mo now yet still is facially recognizable as Jonah. So lifelike. Still amazed after all these years.
Stuart appears to be ‘Agrid. And I wonder if this was written before or after JK’s little revelation. (Too bad noone’s cavorting as the stunning centaur pal… tricky costume for one though!) I love the baby pulling off Stuart’s hairpiece too. And by the way — outside the strip — cat in basket so unbelievably cute.
I noticed the gay Dumbledore character too. But you can’t “out” a fictional character, let alone a dead one. Who’d’ve thought that “out” as a verb would be mainstreamed the way it has been? It still keeps the sense that being gay is a dreadful secret, and that no one would ever be openly gay by choice. I guess being openly gay is my genes; don’t oppress me, sisters.
And Lois’s invitation to Clarice is perfect. It’a almost as though Ginger’s move was planned in advance for this very possibility….
There IS *someone* dressed as Dumbledore getting down with his bad self in the bottom right panel!
Loved the strip! Yay for back to twice a month! JR as Max is adorable. Interesting idea if Clarice moves into the “home.” Will she still contribute to the mortgage on her and Toni’s place? Will it drive her back into married suburban life?
Glad to see Cynthia’s still got a place she can go.
That was hilarious. Particularly Dumbledore rocking out with Larry Craig. Everyone’s costumes were great!
Alison, that was fast work on Dumbledore. And I love JR’s jack-o-lantern artwork on the front door.
PK-I’ve been there with the mortgage and rent thing. It’s scary. Almost as scary as managing a mortgage on a single income these days.
Now I have to go reference Samia without a hajib and look at the differences. Without hair, her features are much more pronounced. Wow.
Wow. That’d be interesting for Clarice to move away from Toni and Raffi, and then move into The House. I suspect that she wouldn’t have to worry about explaining much about keeping odd work hours, yet still live with people who were concerned about her and somewhat progressive. Oddly, it’d be as though she and Ginger switched basic life paths.
I wonder if Clarice would be willing to let go of being upset at Toni long enough to be able to consider her own happiness and freedom, something she’s been preoccupied with for quite some time.
What? Nobody dressed up as King Leonidas?
What is Museum Replicas going to do with all those leather briefs?
http://www.museumreplicas.com/museumreplicas/detail.aspx?ID=1339
I love the good german bit. Must work into this week’s conversations somehow…
Perhaps it’s Daniel dancing with Carlos. They do live together,afterall. Maybe Raffi could live with them until Toni and Clarice sort things out. They understand male adolescence better than the moms,afterall. It takes a village…
byridie–I think that Lois,Sparrow and Stuart are more than “somewhat progressive.” Between them,they have many years of feminist,lesbian,anti-sexist male,peace,and environmental activism.
Mrs.Pritchard was pretty amazing tonight. I believe there are a total of 4 episodes.
Oops,that’s byrdie.
Oh, please have Toni move into the House of Wayward Adults! That would be so fun!
Er…that would be Clarice, of course. Although Toni moving in would certainly be amusing, I can’t quite see it.
good lord ab–you’re bril. i couldn’t figure out how to dress for the halloween party but now i’m going as a good german. my ancestors would be proud!
that you will be back to your two weeks routine – i am so happy, thank you!
the strip is a hilarious pleasure. can’t wait to see how things will develop when clarice moves in 😉
i especially go for the detail with “the daughters our parents always wanted”. simply fantastic.
Sydney’s spit-take is brilliant!
Good to have you back Alison!
Love the shot at Big Cancer’s Pink Ribbon hypocrisy. THANK YOU!
Hey, Sparrow looks EXACTLY like she did as ‘Pru’ in that old strip with all the dykes as ‘Ladies to Look out for’ (when was it again? someone remind us!)
A bit of backstory! If Ginger and Samia are the children their parents always wanted, apparently Ginger’s parents are Jehovah’s Witnesses. Good to know. (Did we ever meet them? I forget. AFAIK we’ve only seen Clarice’s parents once.)
I’d like it if the story focussed a bit more on the house for a while – I especially miss Sparrow. It seems like three or four years since she appeared in more than three frames in a row or said anything about her own life.
Who’s that on the right behind Carlos in Panel 9? I see Janis’s mom on the left.
When I saw the advertised panel, I briefly mistook Cynthia for Thea based on long hair + glasses.
Considering that most of the people in the room probably WOULD sign an impeachment petition, they’re being pretty good sports about Cynthia’s costume. I’m presuming there’s a deliberate subtext about how nothing’s scarier to a conservative than a peace symbol…
Looking closer, there are additional unidentified silhouettes in Panels 1, 3, and 8.
another polyamory discussion anyone?
from the strip and the previous discussions, I assumed that samia wants to divorce from her husband. it just hasn’t happened for some reason.
looking at panel 8, how about her having multiple partnership (with man and a woman) without necessarily living with all of them (even though he stayed at the new house for a while)
Yay! (re:dtwof schedule change)
Love the potty costume and the idea of Clarice moving in with the crew.
Not to namedrop, but I was at a cartoonists party on Saturday, and Ellen Forney turned up in a conservative suit, big wig, and GOP stickers and buttons all up and down her lapels. We all agreed that hers was the most terrifying costume in the room.
Love the Max costume from Where the wild things are
I love Ginger’s costume — but wasn’t she a little Catholic school girl in one of the strips that showed them all as kids? Oh yeah, and Watson’s wound is in his leg too.
I love the strip and am thrilled you’ll be back to a twice-a-month schedule (though sorry with everyone else that you didn’t get a real break). And I’m so glad to see Mo and Sydney enjoying each other’s company.
I rarely post here though I’ve been a fan forever – but I just have to say this time, brava, Alison, top-notch stuff. I was giggling by the time Cynthia showed up with the impeachment petition, but Samia in the chador just pushed me over the edge into out-and-out hysterics. Fanastic!
Shame you didn’t get so much of a break, but yay for your readers!
Do I get a Potter-geekdom prize for knowing Janis is dressed as Fleur Delacoeur (what a name – flower of the heart)?
This episode is completely hilarious and yes, I agree, Ginger plugging the Watchtower gave me the same reaction as Sydney and ruined my keyboard. I like the little twist Cynthia does and Mo’s withering look. I imagine Cynthia to be in serious physical danger as Mo’s rage looks seriously pent up, smouldering and ready to explode.
cml-chador, not hajib. I *knew* that. I stand corrected. And embarassed for incorrect usage.
Yeah, at the big holiday dinner when Cynthia had just come out, Ginger said she was a deprogrammed Catholic.
Ahahahahahahaha, Ginger replaced by Clarice. I LOVE it. What a fabulous idea.
I’m particularly enamored of the Monty Python “cockroach cluster” reference. It’s a beautiful bridging of Potter and Python. Totally awesome.
I say “Yay!” to two strips a week as well!
And so much to look at—seems all the happy people are in costume, but the “unhappy” people are not? And I’m still wondering—what’s up with Ammar?
Deena & CML–I think the word is hijab, not hajib. (“Hajib” sounds like a portmanteau of haji, one who has made the haj, and habib, beloved.) And a chador is a one-piece, full-length, usually black, cloaklike garment–Samia is wearing a white headscarf over an unidentifiable black garment.
Isn’t Samia simply wearing a head scarf?
Maybe Ginger is riffing on how constrained she felt with her Catholic upbringing. (Though I don’t know much about The Watch Tower folks– Jehovah’s Witnesses, are they?) In any case, it’s much funnier than dressing as a nun, kind of a cliche in gay circles at this point.
I’m still curious as to what exactly happened in #513 after Clarice jumped in the leaves and collided with Ana and Stella.
“parcel” — guffaw!
The Larry Craig costume may someday be real DTWOF trivia.
i got the impression that ammar was simply humoring samia by agreeing to be part of her costume. i think they are probably all cool. ammar should find a new sweetie, and everyone should leave the polyamory for lois/louis.
…and it was still hot.
Bwah!! Clarice… in the house!
(And did the Cynthia in the other house question ever get resolved? Are two strips a month going to be enough to keep up with them?
Poor Cynthia, if we don’t get a democratic administration in soon she’s going to loose her precious conservatism…)
Hi! Not to be a dork, but what is Stuart dressed as again? I’m a LordoftheRings geek, and fairly clueless about the Potter.
As usual,your strip reminds me to play a bit more with life and to value the importance of the comic. You bring cultural theory to bear through a myriad of characters, creating a space for identification and provocative cultural consideration … so yummy.
as pleased as i am about the return of the biweekly strip, please don’t burn out like britney spears. there’s only so much my little heart can take.
Alison in her car…young Piebald on her lap…no adequate kitty restraints…the paparazzi in a frenzy. Alison stumbling out of the Wholefoods Market, propped up by her posse, dark sunglasses,little crop top, flashing a pierced and be-jeweled belly button, the mini skirt sans boxers…
Alison, take care of yourself. Don’t let it happen!
Bindweed…Stuart is dressed as Hagrid, the half-giant/half-human grounds keeper of Hogwarts. He is famous for being the big lovable oaf who loves monsters, dragons, spiders, etc. and is constantly trying to raise them…mostly unsuccessfully.
And yes, this is one awesome strip!
So glad to see this episode at the end of our bank holiday monday in Ireland! Im stealing Gingers outfit for the Derry city party (largest Halloween party in Northern Ireland), will give it DUP twist though (our very own religous lunatic fringe). Two weeks only to go….keep em comin girl!!!
Shado, I hate to tell you, but AB is only going to do two strips per *month*, not per week as you gleefully note about 10 posts back: “I say “Yay!” to two strips a week as well!” Just as well. No one would do anything but read the strip and comments if it came out twice per week! But what fun! AB, best strip in ages, very good humor!
My sympathies are with Sparrow in the first two panels. As I close in on two years as a souless corporate drone, I still look in the mirror and don’t recognize that old guy staring back. Haircut… dress shirt… My GOD! He’s wearing SHOES!
It makes sense that Sydney would see Sparrow as Hillary rather than Condi. That’s what scares her.
Dr. E–Sparrow is working for (full name) NARAL Pro-Choice America,which is far from being a corporate drone. And she has Stu to take her suits to the cleaners and keep the home fires burning.
Aunt Soozie–funny as ever. Keep ’em coming.
I sat and stared and wondered what Carlos was doing and then I finally got it. I just about peed my pants. OMFG that was SO good. I figured the Hagrid, but which character is dressed as dumbledore?
I agree with bean on Ammar. And I think the new kitty has definitely cheered up Alison — this is more pure silliness than we’ve had in some time.
Looks like Ammar is blowing his costume though, if he’s drinking a beer!
But aren’t there *two* families living in da House? I thought Lois and Jasmine and Janis were cohabiting.
Yeah, I think we’ve seen also Clarice’s brother in that same strip (on coming out.) I wonder how he’s doing!
🙂 (gratuitous smiley, attached to no joke)
Haha, I actually went as Larry Craig for Halloween this year!
I love this strip – it’s great fun picking out all the different costumes. I love Jiao Raizel as Max from Where The Wild Things Are and Ginger and Samia’s costumes are hilarious.
Feminista, I totally agree with you: my first reaction was Sparrow had dressed as Condi; the hairdo in particular is total Condi. She doesn’t remotely look like Hillary.
And speaking of cats, even though that was another thread, I can’t resist pointing you cat people to this video of how and why cats are evil: I’m not sure how to embed a YouTube frame in a comment, so I’ll just point you to the blog entry where I found it: http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/10/why_cats_are_evil.php Plus, it’s probably more polite to give credit.
Oooo! I am so excited that DTWOF is returning to twice monthly. Having a month’s lag time between strips was a long wait, although I appreciate that it gave you time to regroup, Alison. I just hope that the return to the more frequent schedule doesn’t fry you too much!
I’m pretty sure that the silhouette with the braids is Jasmine, Janis’ mother. I’m not quite sure who the other silhouette is. Was it meant to be anyone? (I think it kind of looks like Mo’s ex Beatrice Buell…but I doubt it since she was a very minor character from a flashback.)
I am so excited that Clarice may take Ginger’s spot in the communal house. It’s really interesting (as someone pointed out) that she and Ginger really are changing places…Ginger now is coupled and living with her partner and a mortgage, while Clarice is single and primarily dedicated to her work and about to live in the communal house. It will be interesting to see how they (and their friends) adjust to these changes.
In party scenes like this, I keep hoping that some familiar faces will pop up…and was glad to see the return of non-front burner characters like Sparrow and Cynthia. I’d also really like to see Harriet pop up…especially with the ups and downs in Mo and Sydney’s relationship and the fact that her daughter would be a bridge between the teens (Janis, Raffi, etc.) and the toddler (JR). Also, it seems weird that Jezanna and Thea are so absent from the group even though the store has closed down (but maybe the mystery silhouette is Thea’s lover Maxine?). However, I know that if all the characters from DTWOF made appearances, the regular storyline would come to a standstill or there would be one or two strips jam-packed with the parade of characters.
judybusy-I meant to put”a month” rather than “a week”; thank you so much for pointing out my mistake.
first post ever ever…following the stip as I re-coop from bad tumble….strip has been a comfort from the mad world of counseling…hmmm best to hide the DSM-IV when I enjoy the strip//// tee hee
Feminista, I am pretty sure there are SIX episodes to “The Amazing Mrs. Pritchard.” Jane Horrocks is wonderful (as usual) and Janet McTeer is great too. I had to look up what “The Parliament Act” was about.
Oops, FIVE real episodes. They count the 2-hour first show as 2 episodes.
Thanks,PD. And what IS the Parliament Act? Is Catherine the equiv.of the U.S. Vice Pres. and (the redhaired woman)the equiv.of our Secy of State?
Catherine is Chancellor of the Exchequer, and is responsible for all economic and financial matters. The other woman is Home Secretary, which is about internal affairs and immigration. The Parliament Act seems to allow the government to ignore the House of Lords. Wiki all those terms for more details.
OMG I love JR as Max! Happy nostalgia of my own girl as a fearsome toddler!
Quivering with pride and hilarity as I have successfully worked a “good German” reference into conversation already! Let’s keep a tally…
Frame 8 blows my mind. BTW wading into the headscarf conversation, over here we call that a jilbab (I think it’s our proximity to Indonesia).
Personally I’m not sure if 3 Harry Potter costumes is (are?) enough. Plus check this out: trying to tell J.K. Rowling that she is mistaken about Dumbledore!
http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007/10/23/dumbledore-is-not-gay-taking-stories-more-seriously-than-the-author/
Guess some people don’t get the concept of subtext. Or else they are so deluded they still don’t believe it about Liberace..
It’s perfect.
Yay to two strips per month. Two a week would be even better, but we desparate fans take what we can get.
” I’m pretty sure that the silhouette with the braids is Jasmine, Janis’ mother. ”
Huh. I had that person as an unidentified character dressed as Lynda Barry’s Marlys.
Ah. So that’s what Stuart looks like with hair! Awesome.
Does anyone else think Lois wants Clarice to move in to substitute for Ginger?
Anyway, a cool strip. It pleases me to hear you are returning to your biweekly strip schedule, Allison.
Thanks,PD for the explanations. We Yanks are woefully ignorant of the details of other govts.
Yes,the creative braids def. belong to Jasmine,and I also thought she and Janis had moved into the House,though Lois’ comment indicates otherwise. Ah,the plot thickens!
I’m worried AB will blow a gasket (I nearly wrote blog a gasket — LOL). So much detail, so much comedy.. twice a month and a book, too. Come to your senses, AB..! (shudder)
I think moving in there, if only for awhile, would be good for Clarice (and for Toni, and for Raffi — maybe he could come over to visit, and develop a crush on Janis?).
“Homosexual Ladies to Really Watch Out For” was the April cartoon in the 1994 Dykes to Watch Out For calendar, and was reprinted in The Indelible Alison Bechdel, page 145.
Whatever the reason, this is a lovely episode.
Cynthia cracked me up the most – she’s like, hey y’all, I’m a freakin’ progressive — we just run around with our anti-Bush petitions looking like 60s relics! (Remember when JR cut up Stuart’s impeachment petitions into ‘thnowflakes’ when someone – Ginger? Lois? – was babysitting for her?). Anyway, I thought the ribbing was fair enough, esp. considering how little we (progressives) have been able to accomplish in all this madness. But we all know that deep down Cynthia actually likes progressives, so the ribbing is all in good fun. Guess it just made me laugh to see her face & glasses inside a big hairdo wig.
Seeing as Lynn Johnston of FBOFW is kind of abandoning her craft(about which I learned from this blog), it’s a deep relief to have DTWOF back on its old sched.
All hail the Queen! (Lady B, that is…)
Great strip!
I’m really happy to see “Hagrid” and “Fleur” together– Stuart was so sad when Janis didn’t want to be Harry Potter any more. It seemed to go along with his not accepting her gender– with his not knowing how to play with or interact with her, even though he’d been close to Jonas. So the fact that he’s now happily playing Hagrid for her again, and totally okay with her playing a female character, suggests to me that he really became more accepting and understanding of her, sort of behind the scenes. The fact that this is almsot a throw-away here speaks to, as other people have mentioned, a real attention to detail and awareness of complex intermingled relationships between *all* the characters on AB’s part, and I’m way impressed.
Also, yay!
Suz, I totally thought of Marlys, too!
pd, or other Brits here, re The Amazing Mrs. Pritchard (I now hear the emphasis on the last syllable in my head) — I’m fascinated by the range of accents being used. What would you call Ros’s accent, and is it the same as Ian’s (her husband)? And why don’t their daughters seem to have it? Is it as working class as it sounds? In contrast, what is Catherine’s accent? Are these clues to class tension that are likely going over our heads as American viewers, with the myth in this country that we don’t have class-based accents?
Ros speaks with the same accent Jane Horrocks has naturally, which is that of Lancashire, in northwest England. As Bubble in AbFab Horrocks considerably emphasized it.
Actually I’m not a Brit; just curious and fast with research. Can’t say about the other accents. Children would not have the accent of where their parents were from, but where they, the children, grew up. Catherine, being well educated and an ex-Tory, would have a more upper class accent, which tends to obscure regional differences.
Duncan,
I know, I’m really, really a Harry Potter geek, but of course Dumbledore was in the closet. His whole life was about keeping secrets (without getting into spoilers for the last book). It would have been totally out of character for Dumbledore to be out.
In fact, JK Rowling shows, through Dumbledore’s character in the book, how crippling it is to keep secrets. It makes perfect sense that he never came out. I am really glad that she came out for him. And that she talked about the books as a prolonged plea for tolerance – which they are, and problably explains why the religious right hates them so much.
Hi All,
Firstly, THANK YOU Allison, for the fabulous and delightful strip (this was laugh-out-loud funny enough that I almost woke up my sleeping toddler!),
Secondly, thank you for the the fabulous and delightful news of your returning to a twice a month schedule!
And thirdly, I missed something – did J.K. Rowling out the actor who played Dumbledore, or the character? And if it was the actor, why did she do it? And what was his response?
Jennette
j. b. t.–It was the character that was outed. Rowling was at a book-signing when the question came up about Dumbledore and relationships. Here’s a link to a transcript-sorry it’s so long.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/10/20/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-hall-reveals-dumbledore-is-gay-neville-marries-hannah-abbott-and-scores-more
To delve into the Potter-otaku thing, after I heard about Dumbledore, I have come to the conclusion that tho’ Luna and Neville are good friends, Neville is gay.
Janis as Jonas was Hermione not Harry.
Ack! I reread my comment. It’s LOIS I miss, and who we haven’t heard from for years. She was such a major character in the early days. What’s she doing with her 30s?
Neville actually marries Hannah Abbott and lives upstairs of the Leaky Cauldron (major Potter geek here!)
Terrific strip, Alison. Love it!
Amy
“It makes sense that Sydney would see Sparrow as Hillary rather than Condi. That’s what scares her.”
Given Sydney’s political statements over the years, I thought she’d LIKE Hillary.
Great, funny, exquisitely detailed stuff, Alison! I’m glad to see the biweekly schedule returning, too. And just when comments pointing out that the characters are acting as though the strip is winding down to a close were starting to worry me? Here’s Clarice on the verge of moving in with Lois, Sparrow and Stuart! With all the possibilities there alone, this strip ain’t goin’ nowhere. It has the potential to be the lesbian “Peanuts”, in terms of longevity as well as cultural significance and just plain quality.
Speaking of Clarice…once she’s ensconced in thye HfWA, there really won’t be ANYONE to pressure her to reconsider her workaholic ways. What will happen when the new roomies see firsthand just how bad she’s gotten in this regard? How much worse will get get now that she no longer has a wife, a son, even a conciliatory impulse living in the house with her to keep her from getting even WORSE? Girl’s on the way to an aneurysm. I still want things to work out for her and Toni…hope endures.
And Carlos as Larry Craig? I actually didn’t get it at first; once I did, BIG GRIN! But this ties into my sole complaint with this strip: when I saw Carlos and Daniel (I assume that’s Daniel as Dumbledore), it occured to me that, while it’s great to see them-even without dialogue–this would have been a great opportunity tio give us Jezanna, Thea, Hariet and all those other DTWOF characters curently in limbo, even it was just for a cameo. After all, the whole extended family of characters presumably still cares about each other, even if the strip leaves characters behind as it moves on. Hell, even if Harriet/Thea/Jezanna/June/etc. AREN’T as close to the girls as they once were, it’s a party, and there’s no reason Lois/Sparrow/Stuart wouldn’t invite people they haven’t seen in quite a while (come to think of it, has Stuart even met those characters at all?) ust to catch up with them. Plus, it’d be gratifying to see more of the “forgotten” DTWOF cast, even if they get no lines.
A few thoughts on this:
Mike, interesting insights about the role Harriet and her kid could play here, given the chance. Alison, how about it?
What if Jezanna somehow became General manager of the local Bunns & Noodle? Hell, we haven’t seen much of her…who knows how she’s changed since we last saw her? Maybe enough that she could not only work for a corporate chain bookstore that she once loathed, but thrive in that environment. I think there’s character arc potential there.
How about a “shadowy” subplot in which one of the forgotten characters gradually unfurls a plan or strategy that will impact the rest of the cast in some way while remaining hidden or facially obscured in a “Dr. Mabuse” kind of way until, finally, there’s a “big reveal” that re-injects the character into the heart of the series? (Not necessarily a SINISTER plan or conspiracy or anything; just something that would generate intrigue and curiosity leading up to the reveal/character comeback.
I love the extended cast and would love to see you catch up with them more often.
Keep up the great work…there’s no one doing this right now who is better than you!
P.S. Could John Mark Reynolds be a bigger closet case? Snort!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Back to the old cycle, and a cast-heavy, pun-rich, plot-promising strip — calloo, callay! Merci mille fois!
Dumbledore wouldn’t have come out, because he was ashamed of the fact that his big love was the most evil wizard until Voldemort came. That’s why I think he never had another lover after Grindelwald.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/30gay.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
Article in today’s NY Times about the gentrification of the Castro and the meaning of queer space, its loss as assimilation & acceptance are gained.
Tenuous.
Did Good Germans wear stripes? Loved the strip.
OK, funny comment in response to the Times article:
#
59.
October 30th,
2007
8:30 am
Once again, this newspaper proves it is written for a ten square block neighborhood on the upper west side!
— Posted by george
: )
Wendy, there’s nothing wrong with being a Harry Potter geek. It’s in your genes; the Goddess made you, and the Goddess don’t make trash.
But I’m not sure what I wrote that prompted your response. Sure, it’s not unreasonable for Dumbledore to have been closeted, but he’s the *only* character in Rowling’s world we know to have been gay. Where’s the Gay/Straight Alliance at Hogwarts? You know there’d be a need for it. I’m not really blaming Rowling for an omission like that, though other writers of YA fiction have thought of such things.
My impression, having read all seven books, is that Wizard society is possibly more homophobic and repressed than Muggle society, aside from the Wizards’ racism and other unappetizing tendencies. Unlike so many Potter readers, I’ve never found the Wizard world appealing. I guess if you’re getting a wand, a broom that really flies, and magical candy, things like house-elf slavery don’t matter much.
It isn’t just the “religious right” that’s been having a cow over Dumbledore’s gayness. Even some gay men have gotten their pants in a bunch over the revelation. I wrote it about here:
http://thisislikesogay.blogspot.com/2007/10/unbearable-straightness-of-harry.html
and I’m working on a follow-up, thanks to the link given us by April. But try this one, written by a straight liberal:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/10/poor_baby_has_issues.php#comments
Does anyone else get the impression that Lois wants to leave the house? Maybe the role-reversed nuclear family circus is cramping her style/love life/etc….
Duncan, I don’t think British schools have GSA’s generally. I could be totally wrong, of course, but I don’t think it’s the sort of thing that would have been on Rowling’s radar….
Maggie, Steven MacIntosh (Ian) is from Cambridgeshire, so I *think* he’s doing an accent that is supposed to be from the same region as Ros. Although it sounded more Manchester to me…Greater Manchester is right next to Lancashire, though, so there’s not a huge difference.
The family lives in West Yorkshire, which also has a very particular accent, so I’m not sure what’s up with the kids. Doesn’t the younger daughter have more of a pronounced one that the older daughter?
I always felt like the wizarding world was exactly like the non-wizarding world, just with magic. And that was the point…even with magic there would still be racism, homophobia, and slaves. The world is not nice, and putting magic into place doesn’t make it any nicer. Of course, McGonagall and Hooch are lesbian lovers, there just wasn’t ever a need to announce it 🙂
Oh, and I must be so Mo, to think she was my number one match and so was Harry…I think I could totally pull off an “I’m dressed like Mo, dressing like Harry” costume, if only there was a party to go to!
Re: Jezanna’s and Thea’s post-Madwimmin careers:
Jezanna should have finished her ESL traiming by now and teaching it.Thea’s an art teacher. Yay,we teachers rock!
Thanks for the Brit accent clarification.
Actually, Cockroach Clusters ARE in the books… JKR is evidently a Monty Python fan herself.
Great strip, as usual. I love everyone’s costumes, and the fact that this is now the second time someone confused her for Harry Potter. Hee.
(warning: potter ramblings ahead)
About Dumbledore though, I think people are missing the point about the revelation. I realized that the fact that he’s gay isn’t an issue that necessarily needed to be addressed in the books, but the fact that he was in love with his former rival does add a new dimension. It really doesn’t matter that Grindlewald was a guy, but it’s like the inverse of the revelation about Snape and Lily. The only thing that bothers me about how JKR handled it is that she should have at least hinted more that his feelings were not platonic, without it making it about Dumbledore being gay necessarily.
My theory on homosexuality and the wizarding world is that it wouldn’t be an ‘identity’ in the way we think of it, but would only be taboo in the families that privilege blood purity and keeping the line. Even then it would be same sex life partners that would be frowned upon, as they wouldn’t be making those “pure” babies they love so much. But I can see an attitude of “don’t ask, don’t tell” towards same-sex romances on the side.
Maybe Alison can answer our questions about subplots, lost characters, etc. in one of those metafictional “We know we’re in a comic strip” strips that pop up now and then (like the one where Mo complained about readers’ “shallowness” for writing in about how none of the characters seemed to be having sex any more). Mo shows up with graphs and flowcharts about stuff, then while she’s extrapolating to the readers about who’s living where and who’s the ex of who, J.R. draws on them behind her back.
I’ve just finished a whole week’s worth of deep Dumbledore discussion on several other blogs and lists, so I have to resist the temptation to start in again here. But I’ll just note that Dumbledore is the gay many straights love to love — a totally closeted sidekick with no demands, no lovers, no “lifestyle,” no community, no visible personal life. . .and oh, yeah. . .he dies. Sure, he wears sort of a dress, but so did Mel “the hetman” Gibson. So gay, schmay. Thanks for nothing, Rowling.
Love this strip. Ginger is particularly scary!
Is it just me over-interpreting, or does our Dumbledore above have a wide stance?
Panels 7+8. Who is playing Samia’s husband? And I think Ginger looks really cute in that wig. Wow, Janis is tall.
>
Um. . .Samia’s husband.
All right, I’m going to wade into the Dumbledore discussion here.
Much of the commentary I’ve seen here and elsewhere refers to Dumbledore as closeted. But . . . says who? Isn’t that a pretty big assumption? How do we know? Just because the books don’t mention a current or former partner beyond Grindelwald — or posters from West End wizarding musicals on the walls of the headmaster’s office? The fact Dumbledore is (assumedly) single and doesn’t reveal his homosexuality to Harry doesn’t automatically mean that he’s closeted, does it?
I mean, I realize that we’re all reading a lot into a world that’s completely fictional. But you know, we don’t know much about any of the professors’ lives beyond the places the students see them — in classrooms, hallways, offices, and common rooms. Literary point of view and all that, I suppose. Isn’t it odd that all of the teachers seem to be single? Who’s to say that Flitwick or Sprout doesn’t have a spouse on campus or back in London? Is McGonagall a widow? Is Hooch gay? And so maybe Dumbledore is out of the closet to his coworkers and friends, but the students aren’t generally aware of it.
Just a thought. I also like what Em and Duncan and others here have said — how the wizarding world isn’t necessarily more evolved when it comes to other issues, so maybe Dumbledore’s supposed circumspection is warranted, especially during Voldemort’s rise.
Sorry for the long post, y’all.
Oops. Forgot. An opposite sex married couple is pretty rare in DTWOF. 🙂
I love Lois’s package and the fact that Sydney is checking it out in a subtle way…
Re Ginger’s parents being Jehovah’s Witnesses– or at least wanting their daughter to become one. This does seem odd–see the calendar strip from January 1994 (in The Indelible Alison Bechdel). Ginger is wearing a plaid school uniform and has a “St. Joseph’s” pennant on her wall. Do Jehovah’s Witnesses have their own schools and call them “St. X’s”? Would a Jehovah’s Witness send their kid to a Roman Catholic or other Christian (such as Lutheran) school? I hope Alison takes this up some day as Ginger’s character is explored. Fascinating.
Just as long as I can still roll up in a naked, sweaty ball with Sybil Trelawney. :->
Hoorays all around!!! I’m really excited the strip will be back to its regular rotation, the costumes are SOOOOOOO awesome, and it seems there’s a possibility for Clarice’s Calvinist-esque self-torture to come to an end!!! Whoopee!
Let the wild rumpus begin!
I say that Dumbledore is closeted because he has no existence outside the texts in which he is written. We can’t talk about fictional characters as if they are carrying on lives outside the pages / book covers (except for fun). So Dumbledore isn’t having lovers that readers (or students) don’t see. He’s a literary construct. In the seven-volume text in which he exists (so to speak), he’s not gay. He has no represented sexuality at all, not even in the Grindlewald section. Personally, I can’t even find any queer subtext for D. From a textual standpoint, Dumbledore’s closet and his tomb are essentially indistinguishable.
But if we *could* talk about characters outside the text, I’d want Minerva, not Sybil.
Me, too!
vajayjay?
Re: Ginger’s parents (not) being Jehovah’s witnesses: I don’t think ‘the daughters our parents always wanted’ needs to be taken *that* literal – we should give Alison some credit here. The parents wanted devotedly religious, straight (if ‘gay’ crossed their mind …), and presumably conservative, daughters. What particular brand of Christianity that thranslates into at Halloween should be of secondary importance.
(Ironically, the Nazis killed Jehovah’s witnesses side by side with gay people.)
ok last post on HP i promise.
i thought the 2 revelations re: neville longbottom were contradictory:
1) he becomes a hogwarts professor (book 7 epilogue)
2) he marries hannah & lives over the leaky cauldron
aren’t all the teachers of that old-style lay-monk celibate mould? none of them ever had the least inkling of a personal life (except hagrid, but he lives off-campus).
how can neville have a family life in london if he teaches full-time in the wilds of scotland? can someone clue me in on this?
ok realising i may be obsessing. time to write more slashfic… how about snape/flitwick? now there’s a dynamic
😉
oops sorry for spoilers my bad
re: Nickel Joey’s musings as to whether Dumbledore’s homosexuality is common knowledge to other folks in his world (i.e. “inside” the book).
[WARNING: HP SPOILERS AHEAD]
I’ve wondered about this.
J K Rowlings is a master of misdirection. It is a common feature of her work that a given event or comment which had an “obvious” assumed meaning on a first reading, clearly has a radically different import on a second reading, once you knew what was coming up downstream (one obvious example is Aunt Petunia’s mention of “that awful boy”, which on first reading everyone simply assumes refers to James, but which we later learn was Snape; likewise the reasons why, say, Moody or Ludo Bagman were so “helpful” to Harry during the Triwizard Tournament).
It would interesting to read back through the books now, keeping an eye out for offhand references of this sort.
One that particularly instance that struck me occurred in an early chapter of “Deathly Hallows” when Harry is reading the nasty smear campaign against Dumbledore in the Deatheater-controlled newspapers. There is a reference to the possible “unhealthy nature” of his relationship with a student (Harry). I understand what the clear meaning of such an implication would be the “real” world but I just skipped over it at the time. In view of JKR’s revelation, perhaps we should infer from this that D’s sexuality was a given (or at least an open secret) in the wizarding world.
(To change gears slightly: In “Deathly Hallows”, once we learned the form Snape’s Patronus was –a doe– was I the only one who had a momentary thought on the order of “Oh god… I wasn’t Lily that Snape was in love with…” )
yes NLC i too thought of a james-crush thing
There’s a Dumbledore/Grindelwald innuendo (that I totally missed until yesterday) early on in book 7. Rita Skeeter, evil reporter, when referring to the final showdown between Dumbledore and Grindelwald (supposedly arch enemies and greatest wizards of the age) says something like, “Grindelwald did not fight but conjured a white handkerchief from the end of his wand and came quietly.” Book 7 has lots of innuendo, more than I’ve seen in most other young adult novels. However, it’s disappointing to me that she reveals Dumbledore’s love life after the fact, and not at all in the book… seems like Dumbledore’s ill-fated love for Grindelwald was as great an influence on the remaining 130-something years of his life as was Snape’s love for Lily… which was also kept largely secret throughout the books, but explored in detail in book 7. Dunno, mixed feelings about it. But really thrilled with how ecstatic her young fans (mostly) are about the revelation.
Hey Jon,
I too wonder what will happen to Lois. But I think she is in the over 40 club now too, since she had a 30th birthday in the early 90s. I could see her as some kind of medical technician. She has this calm demeanor. Wish she could be my mammo tech.
Josh wrote: “It makes sense that Sydney would see Sparrow as Hillary rather than Condi. That’s what scares her.” Given Sydney’s political statements over the years, I thought she’d LIKE Hillary.
According to the most recent polls, working-class women generally support Hillary while women in Sydney’s demographic are much more likely to prefer other Democrat candidates.
I’m for Hillary, too, and a recent e-mail to supporters from her campaign manager mentioned a past Halloween when staffer dressed up as the various “styles” of Hillary: Headband Hillary, etc. Sounded like fun…
Yay! calrisse, DO IT! move into the Co-op! make the Co-op a Co-op again! the 21st century might be horrible, but the Home for Wayward Adults must go on! yes!
Ginger and Cynthia’s made laugh most. Hee! What a fun ep!
Sorry to throw this in so randomly, I can’t remember which thread discussed Charles Schultz quite a bit. Anyway, this could be interesting read for others as well.
Clarice and Stuart frothing at the mouth in the lead-up to the 2008 election – fabulous! (perhaps a fun palette on which to play off the Obama vs. Hillary quandary)
Sidenote: Just realized we say “Hillary” but not “Barack” or “Rudolph,” etc. (we say “Obama,” “Giuliani,” “McCain” etc.) Is this just another societal sex-ism? “Clinton” can’t be THAT confusing, people….
Wow I am just SO HAPPY that the strip will return to 2x/month. I feel spoiled now. (But if it needs to go back to once-a-month, so be it. We’re easy that way. 🙂
Oop – that “people” in that semi-chiding comment was directed at the country (U.S.), not the fabulously hip DTWOF blogosphere.
Re: Mo’s ‘quiet German’ comment. A play on Wednesday Addam’s Halloween costume in The Addam’s Family film when she was a homocidal maniac, they look like everyone else too!
One final Dumbledore/Grindelwald note and then I’ll stay out of it:
The real import of JKR’s announcement seems to have been missed by many folks (e.g. some have been treating it almost as a “PC-ish publicity stunt”, with no real relationship to the books themselves).
Rather, what it makes clear is the deep tragedy involved in Dumbledore being forced into the position of destroying the one true love of his life (in particular, note the irony in the use of “for the greater good of all” in the book).
Ready2Agitate:
There already is a President Clinton. Just like most neutral people referred to “W” or “George W.” instead of “President Bush”, people are referring to her as Hillary instead of “the future President Clinton.”
Especially since the existing President Clinton is still pretty visible in the media and at her events.
re: Neville Longbottom (was that Amy that wrote that?) [MINI-SPOILER]
Isn’t the Leaky Cauldron in the town nearby to Hogwarts, the name of which I’ve forgotton? The one owned in this last book by Dumbledor’s brother.
Jen-
No, the Leaky Cauldron is in London. You’re thinking of The Hog’s Head, in Hogsmeade.
…ahh, the brain cells I waste, knowing this…
Hmm, it appears that Ginger was raised Catholic as I recall her meeting a former Nun/Teacher (“Frankie now, dear”) at the NYC dyke march, who asked “Are you still drawing naked ladies in your catechism?” *Guffaw!*
Maybe Ginger’s parents converted later – or I’m being too literal about it – or mayhap this is perhaps a wee author inconsistency of the sort that Sherlock Holmes’ fans have so much fun explaining!
How about calling her Senator Clinton?
It reminds me of the press using “Saddam” instead of Hussein.
To me, it feels belittling and unprofessional.
I call Hillary Hillary. I call Guiliani *Rudy*. Lots of other people (New Yorkers and Ex-New Yorkers) do, as well. I call the CA. governor “Arnie”. I think it depends on the name. I am sure Obama is called Obama because nuttier Republicans like to pretend to slip and call him Osama.
As for Dumbledore in the closet, remember that Snape was (in a way) in the closet, as well. Lots of my friends thought (and hoped) Snape was gay. I think it was book 5, where you get an inkling of why he never dated. I thought McGonegal was a widow or a “Mrs”. I was totally mistaken about Neville. That’s what happens when you skim the last chapter at 1 AM, trying to just finish the book.
Doesn’t matter what Ginger’s parents were. The costume was funny.
more HP-nerdom:
Neville can simply apparate from London to Hogsmeade and walk up to Hogwarts. It’s a bit nontraditional for him not to live in the castle, but I don’t think the commute would be too much of a problem (he should be long past splinching).
tg-As long as he’s not a Head of House (I’d assume that they have to live on campus…).
To Ellen O, re: “It reminds me of the press using “Saddam” instead of Hussein. To me, it feels belittling and unprofessional.”
Hussein wasn’t Saddam’s family name. As Slate’s Explainer put it [http://www.slate.com/id/1001998/]:
Sir Real, it was Sparrow, not Ginger, who met “Frankie” at the dyke march. In fact, I think that was the first time we learned that “Sparrow” was a self-selected name and she had originally been “Prudence,” which is a funny parallel considering Frankie’s previous name. (For the record, I don’t blame Sparrow but have also always chuckled at “Sparrow Pidgeon.”) So I guess Sparrow’s parents were Catholic, although that may mean her mom converted when she got married.
My Harry Potter knowledge started with seeing the first movie with my daughter and basically stopped there.Yes,it’s true.Mysteries are my escape reading.
So let me wish y’all a Happy Halloween today.As usual,I’m giving out plastic rings and other non-candy things. My daughter,almost 19,finally has gotten used to my no or minimal candy policy and isn’t ourraged anymore. She and her boyfriend are taking their baby (in a carrier) and his sisters trick-or-treating.
Y un feliz dia de los santos en 1 de noviembre y feliz dia de los muertos en 2 de noviembre. (Happy day of the saints and day of the dead.)
That makes me feel better about the US press using “Saddam”, i.e., that they were not being as ignorant as I has supposed. There’s nothing syntactically absurd about referring to Andre the Giant as “the Giant”. I think it was common practice to substitute epithets for names in much ancient Greek and Scandinavian literature; the name of the rhetorical practice is antonomasia.
It is the epithet he chose for himself.
Calling Senator Clinton “Hillary” is inappropriately familiar and probably, in most cases, sexist, although you’ld have to look into the mind of the utterer to be sure whether sexism is intended or inherent or absent. After all, people often do as the people around them do without thinking about it too deeply. Calling her husband “Bill” is just as inappropriately familiar and one can’t really be any more certain about whether it’s sexist or not.
(Sir Real):
I think it was Sparrow who was drawing the naked ladies in her catechism.
As for HP, my crush is for Snape, actually. Does that suggest I need more therapy?
great, just great…
Wow, I’m suprised no-one mentioned how Sydney’s looking at Ginger less like she likes her get up and more like she wants to get down. Maybe she has a fetish for Jehovah’s Witness chicks. They’re the only ones more uptight than Mo.
Hmmm – calling a public figure who’s also a man by his first name may be sexist? Not so sure about that one. But I judge such things based in a power analysis — who’s got it, who don’t, who gets to use it, who don’t, etc. Since menfolk have the institutional power to, say, control most of the country’s print media, it’s harder for me to grant that they may be oppressed by sexism if folks start to call ’em by their first name. OK – not a well-thought out idea there, and not to start a tirade (some already disagree that there may be institutional sexism at play in calling a female presidential candidate by her first name and the other candidates by their last, seeing it mostly as a hubby/wife Bill/Hillary phenomenon…), but anyway…. back to funner things: I can’t remember – is Jasmine dating anyone? Is it Lois?
My fave HP reference in AB’s entire oeuvre was a title in tiny print of a book in Madwimmen: “Harry Potter and the Gargantuan Royalty Check.”
Love the strip, love THIS strip, but it would be perfectly acceptable to this reader if AB took a Bloom-County-like hiatus for a couple of years, if she can afford to. **Ducks to avoid from being pelted by maoist oranges thrown by my fellow faithful**
There isn’t really any “President Clinton” these days. There’s only a “former President Clinton”. He’s been out of office a while.
My point about the sexism is that it has to due with the intent and bias of the utterer which we can’t really know. In many cases, when Senator Clinton is called “Hillary” the sexist intent seems pretty obvious. When former President Clinton is called “Bill” the sexist intent is often harder to find. But given that this inappropriate informality is all over the media and in private discourse and used with individuals of both sexes, deciding whether an individual instance is a case of sexism or of going with the flow is kind of hard.
“may” indicates possibility not relative probability.
AB it seems we as a group lack clarity on the Lois/Jasmine thing. Does Jasmine still live at Commune du Bidykes Vegetariennes? Last I remember Janis was being homeschooled by Stuart, is that right?
Plus what of the infamous Lois and her city-wide harem? Post-depression Lois seems less, um, about-putting, if I may be so bold. Are she and Jasmine shacked up? Just buds? What? Anyone with backstory on this please fill me in.
Oh and Happy (Un)Dead Stuff Night everyone. In another time zone, in another hemisphere, in another season, I’ve already done my dance macabre, got my beauty sleep, and up to wash my face in the morning dew. Ahhh!
Shout out for the Senator Craig costume.
My sweetie and I went to a Sat night party as the Senator and arresting officer, with a similar (but simpler) bathroom stall effect. When we got to the party we burst into laughter when one hostess was ALSO dressed as the Senator – no stall for her, but pants around ankles! Then later two other close friends showed up, again as Senator, complete with handcuffs, receding hairline, and dildo, accompanied by her arresting officer gf. We all thought we were being so original…
:^)
love the strip! the costumes and cultural references are a delight.
perhaps Ginger was depicted as a Jehovah’s Witness because they’re easier to recognize than adult Catholic women.
my guess is that Ginger’s parents’ wanted a daughter who was a conservative Christian mother, not a Catholic nun. a Jehovah’s Witness captures that for me.
I, for one, don’t object too much to the absence of other lesser known characters. makes sense that some of the party guests would be folks we don’t know — can any of us presume to know all of the players in the lives of the DTWOF characters? including Jezanna, Thea, June and others would require a LOT of silhouettes or a bunch more costumes packed into the panels. and, true to life, I expect that Lois (or whomever is hosting this shindig) invited friends who couldn’t make it. that’s life, right?
I love it that Lois has suggested Clarice join the household! having two families in the same house *does* seem a little too domestic for a gender queer role model of catholic tastes.
Hurrah for twice a month! Thank you, thank you, Alison, you have just rendered the oncoming winter bearable.
Lois is in her forties (as am I, having aged along with the cast since the early eighties). She was pretty depressed about passing that particular milestone.
It probably is sexist and belittling to call Hillary “Hillary”. But I prefer it because it is her own given name, and doesn’t imply “wife of” or “daughter of”. My preferred response to the belittling issue is to invariable refer to men as “boys”, and use their given names, preferably diminutives, wherever possible (Gordy, Tony, Billy and so forth…)
Oh, and Clarice really should consider moving in with Lois, Sparrow et al. She needs a break, and Lois needs moral support!
This is WAAAAY off topic, but it is so cool and such good news (especially for someone in my area), that I just had to share it!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071031/ap_on_re_us/funeral_protests
On her website, La Clinton refers to herself as “Hillary”. That’s also the name she uses on her bumper stickers. “HillHub”, “Women for Hillary”, “Join Team Hillary” … how sexist and belittling can it be if she herself uses her given name? I don’t think you can credibly claim that she is unenlightened on the topic of women’s nomenclature.
Now, let’s talk about how the Pope isn’t Catholic enough …
Anon-Eponymous, re your remarks on first-naming and sexism: I can see how, in some circumstances, calling a male public figure by his first name only could be malevolent, intended to belittle, diminish the addressee’s dignity, etc. With a public figure who was a man of colour, or of working-class origins, clearly racism or classism could be in play. But I can’t for the life of me see how this could be an example of sexism. I’m not even disagreeing with you, I just truly don’t see your point.
If you felt like it, I’d love to hear you explicate this further.
Shadocat, that Fred Phelps news is – ? – enheartening? I can’t find a word good enough. I wouldn’t want the baliff’s job, the one who goes in to collect.
woooo hooo!!!!
Alison – you made my day in a very tough week – glad you’re going back to twice a month…. although I love the glimpses back to the old ones. Was an interesting perspective on history.
Shado,
That news story about Fred Phelps’ harrassment at Albert Snyder’s son’s funeral is a mixed blessing. (This happened in Baltimore so I have been following it.)
Snyder claims his son was not gay. Also, the ACLU claims that Phelps’ organizations’ picketing of funerals is protected free speech, so they come down on Phelps’ side, although they acknowledge that his behavior is repugnant.
So it is not clear to me WHY they were picketing Snyder’s funeral with anti-gay placards when the dead marine’s family claims he is not gay.
Is this a case of a closet case, or were they just targeting all funerals of Marine vets? Anybody know?
Yes, I see that Hillary Clinton uses her first name on her site to market her campaign. That, however, doesn’t mean that news commentators or reporters should pick up on her marketing (that would be unprofessional too). Nor should they be inconsistent, using last names for men and a first name for Senator Clinton.
What individuals call her doesn’t concern me.
I found the “Hussein” post fascinating. Is the same true of King Hussein of Jordan?
Phelps is picketing all funeral of soldiers because of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. He believes that anyone involved in the armed services in any way is accepting of homosexual behavior because they are accepting of that policy. Phelps is insane. He started just showing up to funerals in Kansas (where he is based) but that got him so much attention that he has branched out. He was at a funeral here in Kirksville, MO last year. He makes money by suing municpalities when his free speech rights are infringed upon when folks show up to protest his protest. The Freedom of the Road Riders came to the funeral here and were going to blast their Harleys all through the protest, but the cops begged them not to because of the money it would cost the city. Melissa Etheridge sings about him in a song on her new album.
the “shop to cure breast cancer”-industry has become massive in sweden as well, conquering the halloween (all saints weekend) sales with a great margin. scary. if i see one more pink ribbon i’m gonna puke.
http://sexypimpinella.blogspot.com
I call her Hillary because she’s my girl.
By the way, I’m the “anonymous” Hillary supporter earlier in the thread. I don’t want anyone to think one of her supporters was ashamed to reveal their identity–even among the admittedly tough and hyperprocessing ranks of DTWOF fandom.
I’d be more worried about first-name sexism if we read reports about “House Speaker Nancy” or “Dianne, the Senator from California.” Since we don’t, and Hillary is the less-common name of a very notable woman, I’m not wringing my hands or making any protest signs. Do you think Madonna feels disempowered because nobody calls her Mrs. Ritchie?
I’ll call Hillary whatever it takes, as long as George W. Bush ends up having to call her Mrs. President.
love it. very opposite day indeed. i thought ginger was a “deprogrammed catholic”. 🙂
Ginger is a deprogrammed Catholic, but it’s possible her folks would prefer an overtly pius child of whatever faith to an out lesbian.
Re: Anmar, I’m starting wonder if Samia doesn’t still like him but is afraid to admit it? No, I am not assuming they would automatically become polyamourous, but it might be interesting to explore the question.
Of course I’m a polyamourous bisexual m’self, so I may just be seeing myself where I’m not 😉
“if i see one more pink ribbon i’m gonna puke”
A little ipecac for you: yesterday I was walking past a display at the supermarket with a bunch of cake-decorating stuff on it, and I couldn’t believe it–there were tubs of different kinds of sprinkles/jimmies, and several of them had sprinkles shaped like teeny-tiny pink ribbons! Swear to God. Who’d want to eat a cupcake with those on it? Yucko.
Nobody’s mentioned Professor Grubbly-Plank??
The Deck of Cards that was circulated in Iraq showing the 52 most wanted members of Saddam’s regime featured Saddam on the Ace of Spades with his name printed as “Husayn Al-Tikriti”, with that spelling.
Maybe it’s like the Jacobins referring to Louis XVI as “Citizen Louis Capet”.
I believe the Phelps thing goes beyond gays in the military – he’s just not that logical. No, Westboro Church believes America is doomed because it tolerates homosexuals. At all. That’s the crux of it. Therefore, losing the War on Terror (sorry, couldn’t resist capitalising that) is God’s Will (ditto) and every IED casualty is Yahweh’s way of telling the US that gays are bad. I did say logic wasn’t his strong suit.
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Phelps supports the Taliban and Al Qaeda wholeheartedly, something pretty rare in American fundy circles unless I’m much mistaken…
Phelps is not only a rabid homophobic but (primarily) a fruitcake (sorry, I know it’s not cool to label and demean, but I don’t like the man and all he stands for) – I’m sad he’s getting so much attn. through this latest excitement.
>>”…even among the admittedly tough and hyperprocessing ranks of DTWOF fandom.” I assume the post-er includes herself in this description?
Sorry I’m crabby tonight (and I didn’t even eat sugar last night!)
As someone who lives in Fred Phelps’ “backyard” I feel the need to impart some observations about him. True, he is unusually obssessed with all things gay. He also takes the time to dig up any dirt he can on the family members of the people at whose funerals he and his minions protest, making things all the more unpleasant for that family. And by dirt, I mean something as “sinfull” as a divorce. or a bankruptcy. So even if your son wasn’t gay, he’ll find out something else about him, or you, and shout it from a bullhorn for everyone to hear.
When Fred began protesting at the funerals of AIDS victims, at first it was covered by local media. It took awhile, but we finally figured him out–Fred is a publicity whore. The more the media didn’t cover him, the less he protested. Then Mathew Shepard was killed, Fred and the family went to his funeral, and the whole cycle happened again. Ana after awhile, his media coverage stopped. He tried protesting whenever a famous person came to town (I once saw him carrying a sign saying “Bob Dole is a FAG!”) but that didn’t give him near the publicity. Then he figured out his newest funeral scheme, and it was just like old times.
I would love it if the Westboro Baptist Church were bankrupted and forced out of existance. But if the media would stop giving Fred a platform, we might be able to accomplish the same thing.
I didn’t mean for this post to be so lengthy, Alison. You can delete it if you’d like.
dammit–that’s supposed to be “And after awhile”!
agree in principle shadocat, except for 2 things:
1) every time we ignore him he ups the ante.
2) poop-heads like him make us liberals look really good. and feel all fuzzy and persecuted.
any questions?
Silvio–about the anti-gay signs? I honestly think the Phelps clan uses the same signs for every protest—they’re probably just too damn lazy to make new ones.
>>”…even among the admittedly tough and hyperprocessing ranks of DTWOF fandom.” I assume the post-er includes herself in this description?
Absolutely! “Tough” and “hyperprocessing” are positive attributes, as far as I’m concerned. Sorry I didn’t make that clear…
Yay! Back to “fresh fortnightly.” As we say over at Comics Curmudgeon, “Quack! Ahhhh…”
I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness — not even a christian — but I was raised in a fundamentalist family and it was clear that the fundamentalist headset has no respect for Jehovah’s Witnesses. The latter do not celebrate Christmas, often refuse to serve in the military, do not use the cross as a symbol, don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, don’t believe in hell or eternal damnation or the immortality of the soul, and especially believe in political neutrality (even to the extent of refusing to sing the national anthem or salute the American flag), all of which put them at great odds with the Christian Right, including evangelical Catholics. They are conservative and patriarchal, yes, but they have strong membership in communities of color who object profoundly with the hypocrisy and political machinations of the Right. Let’s be smart enough to not lump everyone together.
If you want to read thinking by extremely intelligent folks trying to educate against the Christian Right and the dangers of fundamentalism, check out the folks at Orcinus — http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/
Re continuity: Writing collectives who change membership over time, such as for TV shows, do usually have a staff member set aside to keep track of continuity. For individuals creating art that spans more than one body of work and centers on a group of characters, in my experience most of them/us keep a journal, chart, etc. instead of relying on memory. Chaim Potok used an entire wall of his study covered with cork to which he pinned index cards covered with genealogies, timelines, and the like. I, like a lot of us nowadays, find computers easier. It’s tailor made for the OCD personality, and in addition to the sense of virtue that comes from “keeping notes” (seems like creative work even when it isn’t), it actually sparks ideas and creative synergies. Kind of like having a chance to talk things over with yourself.
Continuity also assists a writer in adhering to her ethic (something Sharon Bridgforth in her Finding Voice program demands you get clear in your head before you create anything else), developing premise, maintaining reciprocity in homage and influence, and furthering believable character development.
another thought about gingers religious backgroud.
Could she have been “deprogrammed catholic” and reprogrammed Jehovah’s witness? Or maybe her mother/father converted and that is why they would like her to follow now.
Does anyone else harbor a secret desire to track the biographical details of the various members of our beloved DTWOF blogger community? (Or are y’all doing that at the Maoist Center for Orange Cakes?) (E.g. Shado lives in Phelps territory; Maggie Jo is a writer, and was raised in a fundamentalist family etc.) Sorry maybe that’s too personal, too un-virtual, and certainly too geeky…. (wink)
Whoa – brilliant timing on Dumbledore. What a fun strip!
The term “Evangelical Catholics” is like the term “Presbyterian Methodists” or “Baptist Mormons”. Totally different religions. As you say, it is important not to lump everyone together!
MysticRiver, you raised a fascinating distinction. I went online to research it — the folks I communicate with use “evangelical” as a description rather than as a sect or specific religion, but we’re both right, according to http://www.religioustolerance.org/evan_defn.htm. Some reserve it for Protestants, some don’t, and this can be determined apparently by geography.
I use evangelical to mean those religious groups which believe they have the right to push conversion, believe the Bible is a literal instrument of g*d, and who are focused on Christ and the gospels.
Leaders/writers who consider themselves to be evangelical Catholics (as opposed to evangelical catholics, which has a different meaning) include Sam Brownback; Father Richard John Neuhaus; Father Richard Rohr; Tim and Sandy Kruse; and Father Jay Scott Newman.
I knew about it because of a personal acquaintance here locally.
So, I’ll strive for even greater clarity — people do tend to cross boundaries, mix and match their beliefs. Like born-again liberals, or that most confusing of all to me, Log Cabin Republicans. (grin)
Jeffster 83
Her spin doctors told her that using her first name would increase her chances of being elected. So she uses it.
Perhaps they feared that if she used a more formal usage, like the other candidates, then she would be perceived as stodgy. She, or at least her campaign, may very well be consciously catering to the sexism of the american public which certainly does have different standards for men and women.
Perhaps they feared that if she used “Senator Clinton” that would make too many people think of former President Clinton and the various sexual scandals associated with him.
She has a problem with her last name that no other person running for president has ever had.
Has anyone said this yet? “Thank GOD you are going back to biweekly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
mysticriver-
If you’ve ever been around a bunch of Charismatic Catholics, you’d know that evangelical Catholics exist. It’s a veerrry different sub-subculture, trust me. Promise Keepers + tounges-speaking/faith-healing + Papacy + One True Faith + Prosperity theology. Yuk.
Maggie Jochild & Deena – I guess I stand corrected! I’m guessing (hoping?) that it’s a very small subgroup? A lot of evangelical Protestants seem to regard Catholics as not even Christian, so it seemed weird seeing the terms lumped together.
Among mainstream Catholics (including the pope…well, the last few anyway), the whole idea that the bible is literal truth is not promoted (yes, evolution is totally cool). That whole sola scriptura thing and the “Saved!” concept are Protestant constructs.
Re: Father Richard John Neuhaus et al. – I thought they were more like evangelists (people who talk/write about the Gospel) than evangelicals (people who believe in a literal bible, conversion, faith not works, etc.) The root word is the same but it goes in different places.
Ah, semantics!
April, I think the worst thing about Phelps is that he enables other bigots to use him to make themselves more moderate. Jerry Falwell criticized him, for example. On the other hand, when there were rumors that Phelps was coming to my city a couple years ago, the local GLBT community (or some of its self-anointed leaders, anyway) got into a tizzy. I think they were slightly disappointed when the rumor didn’t pan out. They should rather have helped pay his expenses to come here; since most gay people will only get involved only in the presence of an overt threat, a visit from Phelps would have been very useful for organizing.
Yes, he’s offensive. But so are lots of people. Some kinds of offensiveness are so mainstream that decent, ordinary people don’t even notice them. But he doesn’t seem to be crazy; he’s too well organized and canny for that. I once saw him on the Ricki Lake show, the last time I had cable, and he was telling Lake that he was giving her the sensational show he wanted, so get with the program. And he was right. Liberals love to get outraged; they’re not so different from fundamentalists in that respect.
mysticriver, “a literal bible” — what is that? I believe that there is a literal Bible, several in fact, on my bookshelf. A lot of people don’t seem to understand what the word “literal” means; some use it as an intensifier, like “totally” or “very”, much as many people use quotations marks. See http://literally.barelyfitz.com/ for entertaining examples.
But I suppose what you meant was that they take the Bible literally. That’s not true either. No one takes the Bible completely literally, because 1) the Bible contains many contradictions that require very loose interpretation to get rid of; 2) the Bible contains a lot of material that no modern Christian, including fundamentalists, wishes to take literally, such as “There are those who become eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven” or “Sell all you have and give to the poor”. Fundamentalists differ from other Christians on which passages to take literally, and how to interpret the rest. What fundamentalists — like conservative Roman Catholics — believe is that the Bible is *innerrant*, free from error, a position which requires very liberal (not literal) interpretation to sustain. And most liberal Christians believe on some level that the Bible is inerrant, and rely on fundamentalist-style interpretation to deal with problem passages. Your claim that “Evangelical Catholics” is a contradiction in terms indicates that you’ve got a lot to learn about the world; well, so do we all.
Duncan, on mainstream offensiveness – a nice one yesterday – halfway through a haircut (that most vulnerable of positions) the nice chatty hairdresser women started having a nice chat over my head about a customer they were convinced was lesbian, and what had happened when they met her. Nothing malicious – just the presumption that (a) it was worth talking about and (b)I was included in their intrigue. I should have asked for a buzz-cut. But I’m too cowardly in a life’s-too-short way.
Duncan – okay, blame fast typing for “literal bible”, it was a mistyped shorthand for what I said a few sentences beforehand, which was the idea “the bible is literal truth”. (And yes, I meant literal, literally) By that I meant concepts like the creation of the world in seven 24-hour days, etc, which some evangelicals believe. Likewise the idea that the bible is innerrant. Neither are positions held by the Roman Catholic church…don’t make me get out my catechism! (sans naked ladies) It’s easy to just fall back on assumption and stereotypes…as you say, we all have a lot to learn about the world!
You are right that it seems impossible for anyone to take the bible 100% literally. I always thought that was the great subtext: Assume nothing and stay on your toes.
On the subject of names for religions, I treasure a conversation I had some years ago with a Greek-Canadian in her twenties in which she insisted that Catholics are not Christians, the latter term being reserved for the Orthodox. (I didn’t get a chance to find out whether she thought “Christian” applied to Protestants — presumably not.) I’m not sure where she was born, but she spoke fluent English and was a Canadian university graduate — still in her community, that’s how the word “Christian” was used.
And Duncan, a fondness for outrage is a universal human weakness. It’s a form of vanity, contrasting one’s own moral rectitude with the all but subhuman failings of others. Liberals, conservatives, radicals left and right — everyone is susceptible.
Wow I am loving (and learning from) the threads on this post(although admittedly, I skip all the Harry Potter entries). (Add THAT to my biographical sketch! : )
Anyway, major hijack, but since Duncan tangentially mentioned Ricki Lake (great post, btw, Duncan; likewise anon-eponymous), I wanted to share the trailer for a new film by Ricki Lake (who’s now a doula) called “The Business of Being Born” about women & the birth industry. (Warning that it could be triggering for women who’ve had traumatic birth experiences, or those facing conception challenges…)
http://www.thebusinessofbeingborn.com/trailer.htm
Duncan you’re right–Phelps is no dummy. For a good many years he was an attorney, as well as a minister. (He’s now disbarred). I believe 8 of his 13 children are attorneys. They make a good living, and have invested their money prudently.I would not be suprised if they have the 11 million, although they claim to be “Just poor workin’ folks”. They also have many rich and powerful friends (out of the limelight, of course.) But the fuel that seems to feed the Phelps’ fire is publicity—and the more we give them, the stronger they get,
Yes Duncan, I stand corrected. Having made several posts regarding “left field” LGBT issues making basic rights more mainstream, I should have realised that it’s commensurate for the Right. Hasn’t Mo taught us all over the years that, just as Pat Robertson made Bob Dole look moderate, so Phelps softens our view (well, maybe not ours, but someone’s) of Romney.
I’m well aquainted personally with the “red herring candidate” in student politics, and should have realised its role here.
Poor Larry Craig. One day he’s a member in good standing of the Religious Right leadership and the next, he’s been abandoned by his own kind and lesbians are pretending to be him for Holloween!
Oh my stars and garters, how perfect! Lois dressed up as a UPS guy! [insert here delighted laugh of a happy Lois fan] I work for UPS! [more delighted smiles, laughter, et al]
Ok. Now I’ll put away all those exclamation points, before I take someone’s eye out.
Hope everyone had a great Hallowe’en!
I can’t imagine Clarice moving in with Sparrow and pals…I think she would go nuts
when I saw the pic at the header of this strip, I thought the Jehovah’s Witness was Clarice, and maybe we were getting a preview of her new ‘do!
yes, easily confused . . . Ginger as a Jehovah’s Witness is much funnier!
have been enjoying the comments about Jehovah’s Witnesses, evangelicals, Catholics, biblical inerrancy, the case against Phelps and his motivation for acting so repugnantly, etc. it’s been exceedingly informative, and the participants get points for civility. yay!!
Rick, you’ve gotta be careful with the square brackets, too. they look at least as threatening as those exclamation points . . .
JenK, I’ve had suspicions all along that Samia is actually bisexual (and polyamorous). if it’s true, and comes out, now *that* will be interesting!
Tera – good point! It seems also like it would be a big comedown: here she is, late 40s, after having had the big career, the law degree, the house, the marriage, the child…she goes back to having to live with roommates, in somebody else’s house.
Although who knows – according to DTWOF chronology, it looks like Clarice never really had the roommate experience or the singles experience. Right out of college (dating Mo) she went right to living with Tanya and then with Toni. Maybe she could use the fun-singleton-hanging-with-the-roomies experience she missed in her early 20s.
Maybe she can trade that Vulva station wagon in for a sportscar and start dating women half her age too!
I don’t think Samia and Ammar are sleeping together. I thought she married him so he could get his green card……or did I miss something?
Nankat, Samia’s told Ginger that she married Ammar so he could get the green card, a marriage of convenience. still, that doesn’t mean that they haven’t slept together. I wouldn’t assume that Samia has told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
As for calling Hillary by her first name: I understand the feminist principle about diminishing a woman by using her first name. As someone who is 4’10” I am quite sensitive to the whole issue of treating an adult woman as if she were a child. But consider this apocryphal tale I learned in my youth about Washington State?s then-senior Senator, Warren Magnuson:
It was during World War Two, and Winston Churchill came to Washington, DC, for consultation with FDR and other American leaders, including the influential Senator Magnuson. After one meeting, Churchill asked the Senator if FDR has called him ?Maggie?. When Maggie told him ?Yes?, Churchill said Maggie should hang onto the nickname: ?The reason I?m Prime Minister today is because millions of Englishmen know me as ?Winnie.?
I agree that, according to the highest principles of feminism, calling Senator Clinton ?Hillary? is degrading and insulting, and should be stopped at once. Such is the high realm of Sydneyian Theoretical Theory. But in the Real World, being known by a friendly nickname is a big asset for any politician. It humanizes a candidate, and makes a voter feel like she could sit down with the candidate over a pot of tea and discuss their respective spouses and sweethearts (both obnoxious), and the price of gasoline (a outrageous). Hillary should cling to her casual nomenclature with Churchillian tenacity.
Jana C.H.
Seattle
Saith JcH: Do you think God is punishing my atheistical broken ribs by afflicting me with the hiccups? Nah, the Big J goes in for boils, not hiccups. I wonder if I?ve offended Momus somehow,
YES YES YES!!! NEW STRIP IN TWO WEEKS!
YEE-HAW! WHOOPEE! ROFLAO!
ALISON _R_O_C_K_S_!!!!!!
Yes, he still thinks about you and your iBook constantly. I’m almost jealous 😉 Great to hear the strips are coming back to twice a month!
I laughed my ass off at Sydney’s costume. Brilliant.
i have always wanted to be Max (see third to last panel) from “Where the Wild Things Are”, for forever.