Same as it ever was, only much worse
November 23rd, 2016 | Uncategorized
Since I stopped drawing Dykes to Watch Out For at the tail end of the Bush administration, people have asked me many times if I thought about my characters, and if so, what they were up to. And I would have to be honest. No, I didn’t think about them, and I had no idea what they were doing.
But last week they all started flooding back.
146 Responses to “Same as it ever was, only much worse”
Thank you so much for drawing this…we need to see ourselves right now more than ever. Much love to you!
So thankful for the opportunity to catch up with these old friends! I’ve missed them more than ever these past few weeks. And grateful that my smile, which had gone AWOL earlier this month, found its way back to my face while I was reading. Happy Thanksgiving!
Hi Alison, thanks for this. It’s a small, good thing to be grateful for. I worked hard on the Clinton campaign, putting in many hours calling voters in swing states. It was never easy but I was glad to do it. I will never forget the thrill of hearing Ms. Clinton look straight at the camera during the debates and hearing her say that under her watch women’s reproductive rights and the rights of the LBGTQ community would remain safe.
After the election I donated money to Lambda, Immigrationequality.org, Planned Parenthood, and Southern Poverty Law, all in honor of Mike Pence.
I don’t know what will happen now but I am prepared to do what I can to uphold human rights for all humans as best I can.
xoxoxo
Just what I need today. Thank you.
And I love how you’ve aged the characters.
Bravo Clarice and her boundless energy….and the kiddos!! Well taught, well informed kiddos are coming! Chins up, shoulders back, chests out, empathetic arms open – we are bigger than they could ever be…
Thank you for catching us up.
Xoxo
I’ve been re-reading the strips about the 2000 election and this is a wonderful update! And Raffi all grown up!! Calling Paul Ryan!! Woot!!
On a more practical note, I setup a monthly ACLU donation.
I feel like crying, I’m so happy to see everyone. Raffi all grown! I’ve missed them so!
So glad to see Mo and the gang once again! My wife’s first strategy for coping with the election news was to pick up “Dykes and Sundry Other Carbon-Based Life Forms to Watch Out For”, and recall how we got through the 2000 election. She will be so happy to see this!
This was like having long-lost friends turn up to give you a hug at the moment you needed it most. Thank you, Alison.
Thank you so much.
[…] Same as it ever was, only much worse […]
THANK YOU! It’s a Trumpocalypse miracle! I just got up and ran around my apartment like a sugared-up toddler!
Some of my friends were just talking last week about how much we need DTWOF now. I don’t know if this is a one time thing or what — I sure hope not, but your career is obviously in a much different place than it used to be — but I am ever so grateful.
I’ve missed them so much. Thank you for some time with old friends that once saved this baby-dyke’s life in this time of worry and dispair.
Thank you thank you thank you
Thank you so much.
I am so happy to see everyone again.
Thank you so much for this. I’ve been wondering about your characters all through this, and felt like I was coming home for a moment seeing them all again. We need stories to organize your thinking – and consequently our actions – so please please consider writing more. People look to you, and that’s just the kind of resource that matters so much right now.
Wow. What did it feel like shaping a new strip? Muscle-memory? Scary flashbacks? This certainly is a Thanksgiving gift. Stay warm and a peaceful week ahead to all.
Wow! What a wonderful treat, thank you so much for this!
I needed this so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I actually haven’t cried once since the election (I’m more like Clarice circa 2000) but seeing the old girl up and fighting and organizing was pretty much exactly what I needed. I broke down sobbing, and then I called up my senators.
thanks for coming back in time for apocalypse 4.0! also, raffi and JR look great. nice choice of everyone’s favorite blue-green hair for 2016.
Thank you!! Congrats again on the MacArthur Grant. Mo and Lois are right. Vigilance and focus.
Now you’ve done it! Maintenant, j’ai juste envie de voir la suite… Merci pour ce clin d’oeil post élection. Nous compatissons avec vous de ce côté-ci de la frontière.
also, bring back Janice and Thea and make some disabled QTPOC characters because #disability justice! (no pressh ;))
***waves across the ocean***
Pam x
This was just what I needed, what we all needed! Thank you Alison for bringing back our good friends in these dark days. We need each other now, more than ever. Happy thanksgiving everyone!
The vital piece of historical recording, truth telling, culture and community building this comic provides is so very needed right now. Thank you so much for the work that you!
This is the best thing. Like others, I’ve wished I had these old friends helping us through the election aftermath (and over-identified with Clarice circa 2000.) I understand if it’s a one time thing, but how I would love to spend time in DTWOF world again- or at least to hear how Thea, Jezanna, Jasmine, Janis, Harriet, et al. are doing.
Also- I started reading DTWOF as a teenager. Raffi was a preschooler then. Now he’s grown and I am 30something with my own baby and I feel like I’ve just seen an actual beloved child of my social circle, all grown up.
Thank you <3
Once again, there when we need you most. Thank you, Alison.
Thanks, Alison. =o)
I’m still thinking of leaving the country.
Oh my! All of that terrible week, the only comfort I could have was in thinking that things would be a fraction better with a DTWOF episode about all this. Some wishes do come true!
I THOUGHT I WAS DONE CRYING!
[…] the new strip, we visit the usual gang preparing for Thanksgiving, talking about how Trump’s election has […]
Oh my god, I burst into tears, I missed these folks so much. Thank you for bringing them back, for showing their age, for having the family come together again. This helps!
Something to be thankful for! Thank you , Alison!
So wonderful to see the DTWOF regulars and offspring.I remember when Raffi and JR were born. Too bad about the turkey; guess they should have had Tofurkey. 😉 I’m now a grandmother of 4,still fighting the good fight. Indeed,we do need each other more than ever. Thanks so much,Alison.
Thank you–so great to see the same passion and concern for the world! Hello to everyone in DTWOF universe. I hope ou are all hanging in there and willing to fight like hell!
Hi Alison!!!
Just picked Sadie up from the train station and found this post! What a wonderful pre-Thanksgiving gift! Just like the Dykes to Watch Out For we’re fired up, stressed out, ready to go and not giving up. You captured our lives so well.
Love to you and Holly and Happy Holiday!
Aunt Soozie, Kathleen and Sadie
I needed that, thank you. A good weep with my cartoon loved ones of the past–now with more grey hair. Happy Thanksgiving!
– Jeanne
Thank you! This means so much to so many of us out in the world, feeling all alone. I’ve missed my DTWOF friends! <3
I am so happy to see DTWOF return. We need it now more than ever.
Oh my god, thank you soooooo much! *rejoices* i can’t tell you how wonderful it is to see them all again! Dare I hope we get to see more? Doesn’t matter, this is exactly what I needed to get through this awful month 🙂
Hallelujah! Blessed reunion! Meeting up with these folks again has totally brightened an otherwise dreary Thanksgiving. Glad to see the spirit of resistance still going strong among the DTWOF. Thank you!
Thank you so much. This made my day. Love and miss this world so much – glad to see them doing well. And grown!! Thank you for this gift.
So very good to see these old friends, going about their lives in the midst of the drumpf disaster.
I missed them terribly….
Thank you Alison for this!
Greetings and strength for all dykes in the U.S. from Germany! Stay strong!
Lea
This was a pleasant surprise in an otherwise awful month.
Thank you so very much!
Yeah, this made me cry too. Thank you. Lovely to see them again.
And hell, eight years later the couples are (or appear to be) still together. (Has it really been eight years?)
THANK YOU!!!
So timely, so welcome… Hello, old friends!
Much, much love to all, drawn and flesh.
Thank you for this! It helps cope with the pain
Thank you so much for this, Alison. How wonderful to see old friends again.
So wonderful. Thank you for the wonderful return of DTWOF and my own personal role model for moral indignation, Mo. Don’t agonize/mobilize still seems to be the mantra of my favorite crew!
Reading this feels like coming home. Thank you.
Thank you for this. I was 11 when you stopped publishing DTWOF. I hadn’t even come out to myself at that point, let alone found your work. It means so much to be reminded that even in these rough times, I still have a community to lean on and a future as a lesbian.
(On an unrelated note, I’m just really glad to see that Tony and Clarice still get along. I always imagined that they would reunite at some point in the future.)
[…] por ela entre 1983 e 2008 e chegou ao fim junto com a chegada de Barack Obama à Casa Branca. No post publicado hoje na página da quadrinista ela explica os motivos que a levaram a mostrar o qu…. Bem foda. Ó o que ela […]
Wow. Is it good to see our friends again. Much thanks for this. Feel energised for the long fight.
I bright light. Thank you for that.
-jo jo (producer of that wacky burlesque show we named after you)
I’d wondered how everyone was doing under the Obama Administration, how they felt when the White House turned rainbow, how marriage equality was treating them, how Janis is fairing, what had become of Lois’s intimate life, etc. Thank you for this small peek.
You know that trope about how, in the darkest hour, we find great heroes of the past awakening to save the day, against all odds and to everyone’s complete surprise?
Just sayin’…
“I guess that’s the difference between depression and mortal fear.”
Thank you. Really, just thank you. I’m printing that quote on everybody’s place setting tomorrow.
Thank you…I love that Lois did not change at all
Thanks Alison!
Wow! Love this so much! Thank you!!! DTWOF has been on my mind alot lately and now we have a current strip to enjoy. Such healing medicine. Thank you.
This is such a gift!
Thank you so very much, Alison, for giving us a glimpse of (some of) our old and treasured friends. I would love to see more of them in the coming weeks, but I expect that you are pretty busy both with your upcoming new memoir and with whatever you will put on your personal plate in terms of organizing or rabble rousing or whatever it will be during the weeks to come.
It was so poignant and special — and needed — to see Mo and everyone after this hiatus. I have actually checked this blog daily since your last post just in case….and today was the payday!
Thank you, Alison. Love from Seattle.
Thank you! This felt like seeing old friends, just when you need them most.
I think we all needed this. Thank you for this update and for everything you’ve done, over so many years, to help me and other women who love women figure themselves out and feel less alone. Everything feels a little better now.
Thank you so much. I hadn’t realized how much I missed everyone (Lois!) until this. Somehow this makes me feel a little bit better.
Thank you so much. I savored each panel. Seeing the kids older is a special delight, in a difficult time. Really appreciate your checking in with the gang and showing us a bit of them, gathering.
I love DTWOF,
Thanks for updating us on some of the gang
More please
?
Bless you.
On November 9th, I said to my wife, “I don’t know how I can do this at all, but I REALLY CAN’T without DTWOF.” And here you are, like a miracle.
I was praying that the election would bring this bac and my prayers were answered. Bless.
It’s nice to see the DTWOF crew again. The dead turkey I could do without : (
This is so great. I love reading the comments, too. It reminds me of earlier times and helps me find my own fighting, writing spirit. (I rode my trike in a local protest, and saw SO many grey-haired dykes. We don’t want to take this mess on, but will if we have to.) It took me so long to recognize Raffi!! I’ve been rejoicing to see this in other social media, but want to say it here, too, in the company of the other denizens of the blog. Thank you.
Great to see this strip! What a stroll down the memory lane….. trying to connect the dots from where we left off. Placing Raffi and JR makes one realize that years have gone by and the kids are all grown up….. but friends and family thankfully remain, older, wiser (?) and more mellow perhaps. Thanks for this Alison!
[…] Allison Bechdel posted a new strip for her comic Dykes to Watch Out For (DTWOF) for the first time in over eight years. Like Chris […]
Yeaa my friends are back!! Love it – love them!! Please make more. Cheers from Denmark
I’m so happy that they are all still alive! Thank you for this. Human solidarity and the community of friends and family is what’s getting me through this. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone from South Africa.
Thanks for giving us a re-visit with your terrific cast of characters! Nice to see that our friends are coping as best they can, just as we three-dimensional, full-color folks are trying hard to do. Cheers!
Thank you with all of my heart. We’re going to need more art, poetry and music. You brought me and so many others through really tough days during the Bush years and enabled me to laugh. I respectfully hope this cartoon is not the last one.
Thanks so much for this brillisnt and timely post!
Hello to all the old gang, you know who you are! I’ve missed you! Thanks for the strip. Worth it for the 6 foot tall Raffi!
Dear Alison Bechdel,
A profound “thank you” from the bottom of my heart seems ill-fitted to describe what I feel right now. In lieu of describing the smiles and sobs I experienced at reading this, I will simply say that this was–though I didn’t know it when I woke up today–exactly what I needed. To see these characters again means more to me than I care to pour out here. You have my deepest gratitude.
Most sincerely yours,
Ashley Lieberg
How wonderful to see them again. Though I wish the circumstances are different. Sigh.
to see sidney alive and drunk <3
i'm as happy as can be.
THANK YOU ALYSON !
Talk about a female Brigadoon rising through the fog. … No expectation of more, just so shaken – in a good way for a change.
I’ve been sorting through all the stuff still left of what I would keep if I were a memiorist, and just threw out all the naked women from Life Drawing. Ok, all but my fave.
But running into posters is different. A folding poster from Lesbian Avengers crammed with statements on the back didn’t make me nostalgic, but just as the drawings reminded me of what I am capable of, the orange and black ink on a large fragile piece of pulp paper reminded me of what dykes can do…
I know the things that have wounded or derailed or consumed our energy and still do. Hearing from Everyone… it’s just feels so good to be a dyke, and aware of history. That doesn’t mean being stuck in the past, just an affirmation of what we have to offer that is so critically needed, and how sweet it is to hear you together.
*fistbump*
Thanks Alison! Didn’t realize how much I needed this!
Thank you Alison! I’ve been missing them for years, but never so much as these last few weeks.
Alison, thank you for brining the family back together again!! This really made my day and put a smile on my face… We will need their love and energy to get us through the next fours years…. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
[…] Same as it ever was, only much worse […]
God, out of all the think-pieces I’ve read, all the satire and humor I’ve consumed, all the rationalization I’ve made, this is the first thing that’s made me feel like the next four years will be bearable. Thanks for bringing the gang back, just when we needed them the most.
Thank you so much for this! I was thinking a lot about their reactions to the 2000 election on November 9th.
Reading this comments queue is like the best-remembered kind of Church Meeting. Thank you for inspiring that. It’s a happy surprise that the Humans are still here.
Hurray! Raffi has a beard of adorably insufficient facial hair, just like my precocious scamps who, years ago, matched his talent for internet mischief. <3
Thank You Alison! Have been wondering what you have been thinking and feeling
Deja vu all over again but in such a delightful way; a great happy Thanksgiving. Would it help to crowdsource some revenue to keep things going? Or, do you feel “been there, done that”?
We need to keep our voices heard. Thanks for the emotional uplift.
Thanks for this! And I hope you keep them coming 🙂 Cheers from Brazil!
Your work has been amazing since the cartoon. Your movie score is an incredible act of standing up to and for women.
Thank you for bringing them back for this. Maybe Hothead Paisan will join you?
Danke. Is there anything we can do to keep the strips coming, like all subscribe to Seven Days on line or something? I’m ready to replace my NYTimes subscription after they spent 6 months validating Trump on their front page then whined that they hadn’t endorsed him.
This has brought me more comfort and joy than anything else has since the election. Thank you SO MUCH, Alison.
Alison, iwhen you read all these comments, heres another from me. Perhaps create a new dyke who is beginning to suffer from memory loss…I can certainly help with this, as I have a maternal experience and sadly now I too am traveling down that perilous road to hell. Xxxx Linda Grishman
Alison, Still have my original colllection of DTWOF. since we are all aging perhaps create a new dyke who is beginning to suffer from memory loss…I can certainly help with this, as I have my maternal side experience and sadly now I too am traveling down that perilous road to hell. It would certainly be extremely educational in this day and age Hope to hear from you. Xxxx Linda Grishman
Mo! Clarice! All y’all! I’ve missed you so much, and you know, we need you more than ever. I hope you’ll stay.
Thank you !!! First Bloom County came back and now you — even better !!!
[…] Honestly, I expected to see a lot more of this in the cultural media, or even more in the comics media: Alison Bechdel updated Dykes To Watch Out For for the first time in forever. Cultural touchstone, Eisner laureate, National Book Critics Circle Award finalist, creator of the source material for a musical that’s garnered literally dozens of awards, and — oh, yeah — MacArthur Fellow, Bechdel was a self-syndicated cartoonist for two and a half decades with DTWOF, which for at least a third of that time meant puttin’ ’em up on the web, which means webcomics. It’s a shame that the prompt for the strip was an act of collective national insanity. […]
Thank you — what a relief to see this breath of life.
This means so much to me, thank you!
[…] ITEM! Alison Bechdel’s Dykes To Watch Out For returns in scathing post-Trump form! […]
If this horrible election can bring back DTWOF, then maybe our country has a chance after all. I want more! Let us know how to support you!
So glad to see how they’re doing! Missed everyone tremendously…great to hear from old friends.
[AB is interviewed today’s (1Dec) episode of NYC’s The Takeaway:
[CLICK HERE] –Mentor]
Thank you! What a treasure, to see how Raffi and JR have grown! And Clarice and Toni still together, after all these years! And wonderful Mo! Where’s Harriet? Thank you for doing this. It made my day. No, my year!
Thank you soso much, I didn’t even notice that I picked up DTWOF after the election, but now I get it… You give us hope and passion to fight!
Any possibility of a weekly version of this? I need consoling after Hillary’s loss……
Dear Ms. Bechdel,
OMG THANK YOU! I emailed you post-election looking for some hope ot advice and you did a whole new strip? With grown-up Raffi & JR? Eeeeeeeeeeee! This is one of the best things that could happen in this post apocalyptic nightmare wasteland I now live in. Thank you again. Much love from Phoenix-
Ross (Mac Guy) Tucker
I came onto the site for some vintage solace and came across this! Wow! Thank you!
Keep the fire burning!
We need each other now more than ever.
Thanks for this, Alison. I’m still basically JR in the second drawn panel. But seeing lesbians (and other carbon-based life forms) living life and loving each other makes everything seem a bit better.
Like everyone else in this comments section, I hope for more new comics– but I’m sure you’re crazy busy these days. Either way, thank you so fucking much for your work.
(I may have put down your name on a college application that asked who inspired me.)
*whimpers*
*makes incomprehensible noises*
*gestures wildly at computer screen*
*breaks down in uncontrollable sobs*
Thank you,thank you! Can this be published twice a month? I need something to look forward to now that T***P is in office. Also, what about Samia? Who is Lois dating now? What happened to the Lois/Ginger love triangle?
Like Brazenfemme, I happened upon this by chance – thank you so much, it’s just what I needed.
It’s also lovely to see some familiar names among the people commenting here – I have missed you all too.
Wow! I stumbled upon your site at just the right moment… an old fan from the early 80s! Please start up again, Alison, with DTWOF, we need your brilliant humor more than ever. (Maybe you can even include some “has-bians” like me, lesbian for 20 years, now married to a long-haired pony tail guy from Long Island!) BTW, somewhere I have an entire reel of 16 mm footage of you from 1984 being interviewed about coming out & doing karate. Let me know if you want it. — Christina
Thank you so much, Alison! Did we ever need that! Very generous of you.
Hey, the DTWOF gang AND the DTWOF Blog gang are back together! 🙂 I missed you all!!
Oh, btw… after three attempts, the LGBT rights group I helped found in 2005 finally got the LGBT community added to the Smallville human rights ordinance as a protected class. This took effect on November 1st. Then all hell broke loose a week later. On the evening of November 8th, I felt like I was having a stroke as I watched the election results come in over the internet machine.
Best holiday gift ever, a fresh DTWOF in these rotten times. Thank you AB.
I especially appreciate the DTWOFers embracing their grey instead of erasing it. It feels good to be among fellow argentum-haired folks.
I never imagined we’d have that orange-haired troll as POTUS, But we lived through 1980’s Ronnie Raygun, 2000’s Shrub, so we’ll just have to figure out how to survive 2016’s Twit-In-Chief. Perhaps their internecine turf battles will keep them preoccupied with firing at one another, à la circular firing squad, instead of aiming at us.
As for the infamous hairball of hope that Madeline threatened to upchuck back in 2008, I’d give anything for that hairball now.
(… goes back to the midtown Manhattan traffic madness that encircles Trump Tower …)
Kate L clicks her heels three times and is home… and A.B. is here, and Feminista is here, and hairball is here, and Jude is here, and freyacat and Aunt Soozie are here, and Mentor is here and everyone is here! 🙂 Oh, Mentor. I think I missed you most of all!
[Do you feel my heart saying ‘Hi’…? –Mentor]
Hey Mentor! A bit of housekeeping here. It’s been so long since we’ve had a new post to comment on, and I didn’t immediately recognize why the comments looked odd.
But now I see what’s going on. I think there’s an old default WordPress template at work here. Usernames aren’t bolded and there are no numbered comments. Alison AG did that nice work on the numbered comments, it should be in use. Thanks.
(… goes back to another gridlock alert day in the city that never sleeps …)
[Yes, you’re right (no surprise 😉 ). For now, let’s just say things are in process behind the scenes. –Mentor]
I still could barely speak a month ago when I checked in (thinking of Clarice 16 years ago) and found this beautiful strip.
Back today, joy at the comments. I’ve been finding for myself “the difference between depression and mortal fear.” So true.
I’m switching my thinking about peace. From ‘something I get, something for me to consume’;
to
something valuable I have to give.
Thanks and a toast to all.
[Aleta: Duplicate message removed. –Mentor]
By the way, So happy Clarice & Tony got back together!!
OH, how I’ve missed this bunch, wondering how and what they’ve all been doing! Wondering where Janis is…and SOOO hoping this is the beginning of a DTWOF rebirth!!!
Hey, Eris… one of my presentations to my Geology of Planets class is entitled, “Fighting Hegemony in the Outer Solar System” (stay with me). It has to do with the 2006 controversy that ended up with Pluto being demoted from planetary status. A team of astronomers discovered what they thought was a 10th planet in the outer solar system, beyond the orbit of Pluto. They named the planet Xena, and they named its moon Gabrielle.The International Astronomical Association not only demanded actual classical names for Xena and Gabrielle, they denied Xena planetary status because it was one of trillions of small, icy objects in the cold, outer solar system. That also meant that Pluto was demoted from the planetary status it had had since its discovery in 1930. My point (and I do have one) is that the astronomers that discovered Xena renamed it Eris, and renamed its moon Dysnomia after the daughter of Eris. Question for the group: How did the hit 90’s television series, Xena: Warrior Princess, inspire the name Eris? God, I love my job! 🙂
So good to see the crew again. Glad they called, and glad that you’ve been free to concentrate on other things that concerned you. Thank you for the hard work you’ve done on DTWOF and the books.
Best wishes,
David Oates, Athens GA
My “Christmas wish” was for this to be published… To see how my “she-roes” responded to this crazy election. I’m also so glad to see Clarice and Toni are back together! Yay! Mo is my favorite, and I believe that she voted for Jill Stein.
Old fans of the Maoist orange cake will be sad to hear that Maggie Jochild is dying in Austin, Texas. Margot Williams is with her. They met on this blog.
To all old friends from a while back who were part of the brilliant nonsense that took over Alison’s blog – till many of us migrated to FB – some sad news.
Maggie Jochild is very unwell, in hospital in Austin. Marj is with her, as are her good friends from there.
This is Marj’s latest post:
Maggie is still here, but very disoriented. Her bodily systems are shutting down.
I have said “No more aggressive treatments”.
The Palliative Care Team will come by soon. Our aim is to make her as comfortable, and as present, as we can.
Hold her in your hearts, old friends. Pam xxx
Our warrior, our friend, our conscience, Maggie Jochild.
Jain and Pam,
As one of the old devotees of the Maoist Orange Cake, thank you for letting us know about Maggie Jochild. If she can assimilate messages, please give her my regards (Silvio). Maggie’s Amazonian energy was magnificent.
Was reading my old much loved DTWOF recently, on the back of reading Jones et al’s Intersex stories and statistics, and wondering about particular characters and were they Intersex. Interesting debates at the moment about forced surgery for kids with atypical genitalia that I think Mo would rage over.
[I hope Allie doesn’t object, but I’ve made a slight change to this post because of the length of the article originally referred to (it is a PDF of a 274 page ebook).
For an article about the report on the OII Australia website: [Click Here]
For the full text of the report (274pp): [Click Here] –Mentor]
I dont know why, but i keep thinking Raffi would be in the military, (marines) and either missing or just returned with a contrasting pov….as for Stella, same direction, but probably in the Navy
THANK YOU. Like many, I was there in the beginning, with you and these fantastic characters, and am so glad to see their gently aging selves suffering along with the rest of us and getting ready to take action. Thanks again AB -Rob
Only just found this, and wanted to also say a big thank you for giving us this glimpse into the lives of old friends. This coming Friday has me feeling pretty down, when I think about it, but I have at least a few friends taking part in the women’s march in DC, and I shall be being vigilant, following Pres. Obama’s exhortation to put on sneakers, grab a clipboard, and get involved where it matters, however I can