Don’t really understand your ballot system but it seems that Bush is getting a wonderful coup de pied au cul as we say here … and it feels sooooooooo good.
On behalf of everyone from the sixth district in Minnesota, I have but one message regarding new Representative Bachmann- I’m sorry. But hey hey, look on the bright side- the country has flipped Bush the finger with the House of Representatives, Montana and Virginia are still up in the air, Missouri has approved stem-cell research, that IDIOTIC ban in South Dakota has actually been DEFEATED (!!!!!!!!), and now Rick Santorum can finally return to what he really loves- homeschooling his children! Have a day, everyone!!!
DeLand–my condolences on Bachmann; I got to vote for Keith Ellison. For all you non-Minnesotans, he’s the first African-American to represent MN and the first Muslim in Congress.(Although I have concerns about him…but that’s for another time.) Bachmann can nicely supplant Santorum for a true nexus of hate-mongering for the next two years. I think I’ll email Mr. Savage to see if he’ll run a contest a la Santorum for Ms. Bachmann. Maybe something lesbian-related this time, as she seems to have such a problem with us!
To Elisablue and Alex the Bold-I’m herw to tell you it is possible!!
And as a person whose family base is also rooted in
South Dakota; I’m so proud of you guys for getting rid of that stupid ban. That’s more like the place I remember and love (George McGovern spilled coffee on my Grandma’s kitchen table in the summer of 1972-I come from a long line of bleeding heart liberals). And our Missouri stem cell initiative passed!!!
Many of us dykes to watch out for in Wisconsin (and our GBT brothers and sisters) are feeling a decided disonance this morning…overall “we” won with the changes in the Congress, the Governors, the state legislators…and yet by a margin of 59% to 41% the people of Wisconsin wrote unequal rights for lesbians and gay men into our state Constitution.
I think this is an issue on which people’s feelings and opinions definitely evolve…hell, the first time I heard a young dyke say she wanted to get married, I thought, “huh? didn’t she just say she was a lesbian…? we don’t do that…” It took me a while to think through the issues and figure out that of course we should have equal access to marriage and the rights/protections guaranteed therein, and I’ve been a butch lesbian feminist activist since the 70s.
So of course it will take an even longer while for straight folks and others to see that this is an equal rights issue whose time will eventually come. It falls to us who have just been kicked in the guts by our fellow citizens to pick ourselves up and start all over again. Come out come out come out.
In 20 or 30 or 50 years when the citizens of Wisconsin and elsewhere rise up and remove this blight from our state constitutions, it will happen because more lesbians and gay men have come out and been their true selves for all to see.
As for me? I felt compelled to my DYKE t-shirt to work today…
Yep, I’m another Wisconsinite who, at the moment, is feeling more loss than victory. Haven’t gotten around the emotional bend yet to celebrate the national shift.
All along I’ve had a wildly conflicting sense of what would happen. I’ve thought for a while that we’d lose on this one because of the political makeup of the state as a whole, but I also did the whole door-to-door thing and actually encountered people whose minds / votes could be changed, so I guess there was some corner of my heart that was hoping for a better outcome.
I was predicting we’d lose by a small margin, and was expecting to feel bad about that because of the possibility that with a little more canvassing, etc. we might have won, but the margin by which we lost was huge, completely shocking, much worse than polls have been suggesting. The deep resonance of having *new* constitutional language that says “you are less than” is just, well, deep. I teach at a college where the faculty are a bunch of liberals but the students are pretty conservative, and when I go into class tomorrow I think I’m going to have to struggle against the instinct to assume they all voted for this.
Bleah. I’ve left downtrodden comments on several blogs and a morose post on my own blog this morning. Arizona’s gay marriage amendment was narrowly defeated (thanks to a campaign that emphasized the proposition’s deletrious effects on straight couples, with nary a mention of gay folks), but seven other states passed theirs handily. Colorado went a step further in defeating a referendum that would have extended basic rights (hospital visitation, funeral arrangements) to gay couples. So I feel rather ill this morning; maybe in a few days I’ll feel more like celebrating.
Yeeeehaaaaa! Democrats have the house and Rumsfeld is out of there! What do we know about the new guy, Robert Gates besides he was director of the CIA for a couple of years? A Democrat-run house always spells relief for programs and non profits who have been struggling for years with Bush in power. Now maybe we can squeeze some of that $ into housing programs, drug & alcohol rehab, health care, Headstart and domestic violence/rape/sexual assault programs that have nearly closed due to lack of funding.
Ahhh, finally, after library banning fiasco, I can at last say I am proud to be a Missourian! Our stem cell initiative and minimum wage hike passed, we put another Democratic seat in the Senate, and right now it’s all sunny and warm and I just feel good inside.
I actually went back and read the strip from Spawn Of.. after Clinton won, where there still was that giddy optimism about him and Clarice was (perhaps for the only time in the series) happy about the state of American politics.
On a more positive note, with a Democratic majority in the House and hopefully Senate, the chances of a national amendment to ban our marriage rights is slim. I also try to take the long view of these things. We haven’t been fighting for equality all that long, and historically, the battle for rights takes a long time. Also, Rummy is history, which makes me giddy!
The Rummy resignation is just a symbolic victory — I’m sure the Bush White House is not going to improve as a result — but it’s such a great schadenfreude moment!
As for Virginia . . . if we lose, I think I’m going to fly to Virginia and personally egg the house of the Green Party candidate who won 2% of the vote. (She considered dropping out just before the election but didn’t.)
Thanks for the condolences, Judy. I actually live in Minneapolis, but I opted to vote absentee in my hometown of St.Cloud, in hopes of helping to kick Michelle Bachmann’s Bible-butt out the door. But, despite her being equally hateworthy as Santorum, she is not (and likely never will be) as powerful as he was; best-case scenario, she’ll accomplish nothing. (As her record in the state legislature has proven, most of her bills are too absurd to survive.)
My condolences to our friends in Wisconsin. But it’s true, now that we have the house there seems to be less threat of a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage. By the way-
RUMSFELD RESIGNED!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!
(Who cares if the Republicans are trying to steal our thunder; I’ll take it!)
My sister lives in Colorado. I’m afraid to ask which way she voted. (She’s a Dem, but finds the idea of homosexualtiy “icky”.) And my condolences to you in WI. Still, the news acrosss the country is very, very good, and as a born-and-bred Pennsylvanian, I am doing one big happy dance over Santorum!
And now that Montana has been called for the Dems, we all have to keep everything crossed for Virginia!
I am totally agreement with you re the need to come out and be counted (“In 20 or 30 or 50 years when the citizens of Wisconsin and elsewhere rise up and remove this blight from our state constitutions, it will happen because more lesbians and gay men have come out and been their true selves for all to see.) But I DON’T think it will take 20 or 30 or 50 years–the USA repealed the prohibition on drinking alcohol in 13 years! I think we are truly on the road to equality in this country –and in Wisconsin we finally have our State Senate back!
“So of course it will take an even longer while for straight folks and others to see that this is an equal rights issue whose time will eventually come.”
Please, make that ‘more’ straight folks…
There’s a LOT of us who have actively and consistantly supported and worked hard for the equal rights of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
If Arizona can reject an anti-same sex marriage amendment, it can happen anywhere.
Hey, it looks like the Virginia senate seat goes to the Democrats barring any recount vote. News just came in that the Democrats control the senate too. Today is a good day!
Do I wish I could have done more? Hell, yeah. All I can say is: You guys who are running Fair Wisconsin, don’t stop! Nothing happens overnight. We’ll tackle it again, and soon. The thing is, meddling in people’s personal lives is *supposed* to be against the conservative stance in the first place, so we *should* be able to even smack it in on their own ideological ground.
This is only a battle, not the war itself. Sooner or later, the majority will realize that all people deserve equal civil rights.
I have been high on life all day due to; all the big election results I’ve been hearing about; I found a twenty dollar bill in the pocket of my old jacket; and my kid finally got a job.
But I’ve stopped trippin’ long enough to hear about the homophobic decisions made in states like Wisconsin and Colorado, and I want to extend my sympathies to everyone out there who is hurting. Because I’ve been there before, Aug. of 2004 to be exact, when Missouri decided it would be just fine and dandy to forbid us not only to marry, but to not even have civil unions, jump the broom, or whatever. What really hurt was that this passed by such a high margin-I believe it was about 70% of the vote. I thought, “I knew some people in the state hate us, but 70%?”
How did I miss that? It was a slap in the face that stung until Nov., when the Dems. lost, and I though the Feds would be showing up any day to cart me off to Gay People Island.
But that didn’t happen. At first, people were pretty upset, and a little scared. Then a strange thing happened. I have actually read, heard (in the media), and heard (in person) Republicans saying they might have made a mistake. That perhaps their party had tapped into their fear of gays and used that to win the election. That maybe there were worse things in this world than two men kissing each other (like wars where they kill each other).
Missouri still has that amendment. But I’m starting to have a glimmer of hope for things to come. That maybe I’ll actually see our amendment repealed, and yours too. Because once the rhetoric dies down, and they start going about their lives, they’ll realize that someone they love is gay. Or they’ll read about a hate crime, or some evil thing the Westboro Baptist Church did. And they’ll wonder; “Is that me ? Am I like that?” Then they’ll be ashamed. And then the change will begin.
I live in Wisconsin and my joy is surely tempered by the amendment results. I’ve had it with this state–I’m outta here. I’m moving back to my native Rhode Island before things get any worse here.
Replying to Deb who asked what we know about Robert Gates, Rummy’s replacement: This from Daily Kos “Owing to his senior status in the CIA, Gates was close to many figures who played significant roles in the Iran/contra affair and was in a position to have known of their activities.”
Which means he’s experienced in cover-up. Great time to run a shredding business on Capitol Hill.
This is the first time I’ve woken up to good news after an election in many, many years. In addition to the Democratic U.S. Congress, we have a new Democratic governor here in Colorado.
True the Domestic Partnership initiative didn’t pass, but it got 46% of the vote in a fairly conservative state. That’s good. Plus, younger voters tended to vote for it, while older voters did not. In five more years, perhaps it would pass.
Personally though, I didn’t do much to support the referendum (other than stick a yard sign in my flower bed). I felt the campaign sent out a muddled message, proclaiming “it’s about rights, not marriage.” But it was about the rights that married people get and I don’t think calling it domestic partnership or civil union is fooling anyone.
I find it ironic that the people working for the referendum felt it was unfair that gay couples don’t get the benefits that straight married couples do, but no one mentioned that it was unfair that married couples get benefits that single people do. Why shouldn’t my best friend or brother get my social security when I died? Why shouldn’t I be able to designate my neighbor or ex-lover to have hospital visitation rights? All this reliance on just one other person seems rather conservative to me.
Oh yeah, Colorado passed a higher minimum wage too!
Jaibe–
Only 70 percent backed the repeal?? So 30 percent think banning Asian immigrants from owning property is JUST FINE??! Or were there other choices?
If we assume that NM is a normal state, there seems to be a 30% jerk/idiot margin. It makes getting a constitutional amendment passed by 70% feel like 40%, and somehow that makes me feel better.
Colorado. Idaho. South Carolina. South Dakota. Tennessee. Wisconsin. Virginia. I hate to be a downer, but it still feels pretty oppressive around here, especially in Virginia, where the folks just enshrined in the constitution a ban on any kind of contract that even hints at providing benefits that look anything like marriage made between folks of the same sex, and where the newly Democratic senator is an old Republican who has a long history of hating women.
Yeah, it seems like a victory that the amendment only passed with about 56% of the vote and that Allen is gone and the balance has shifted, but we’re screwed in 2008 if the Dems can’t accomplish anything in the next two years. And it won’t be easy for them, especially because of the wreck W has made in Iraq.
As for the Supreme Court, well, that’s already been taken care of, badly for us. The real worry is on the Circuit Courts where W will definitely start pushing through a bunch of hyper-conservative loonies, whom Congress will annoint just because they don’t want to get a reputation for evil partisanship.
…In many ways Webb’s victory in Virginia (fingers crossed) is a victory in name only. But caucus power can be beautiful. Vermont independent woooo!! Shout out to Missouri! *rubs Missouri’s widdle head* Annndd Arkansas told Asa Hutchinson to stop peddling his snake oil to voters and go back to selling their souls as a lobbyist. I’m a GRIT and I feel a little better about living in the South this morning.
Al, et al. — OK, I asked Prof. Google — and the story gets better! Apparently it was against a *federal* law for Asians to be citizens then, so the NM amendment of 1921 just said “aliens” can’t own propert, thus enshrining prejudice by piggy-back. So that may have confused 30% of current NM folk — repealing the amendment actually failed in 2002 when apparently people mistook it for a homeland security thing!
So at least we are now better off than Asians were less than a century ago — and now it is totally inconceivable to choose property owners (or citizens!) by race. So here’s hoping choosing marriage partners by sexual orientation will be equally inconceivable in our lifetimes… (heck, that already is to me!)
I was extremely angered by the amendment passing in Wisconsin. There is an enormous divide within Wisconsin on social justice issues, and many young people from the state’s rural areas are very conservative (as I learned from attending graduate school with them in Madison). I was frankly shocked by the xenophobia and homphobia that I dealt with while attending grad school with these folks. It was the first indication of how conservative their communities tend to be.
I know that in Wisconsin, there was a big effort to inform moderate and conservative voters that passing this referendum would hurt ALL couples, not just same-sex couples. I’m not sure what the difference is between the work done on this issue in Arizona versus Wisconsin and I want to find out.
However, the statement on this made by the NGLTF was somewhat encouraging – that two years ago, with 11 such amendments on the ballot, 9 passed by a margin of greater than 60 percent. This year, with eight on the ballot, one did not pass at all, and four more passed by less than 60 percent.
Have courage my brothers and sisters. They tried something like this in Britain in 1987 with Clause 28 (which forbade “the promotion of pretended family relationships”). It was meant to cow us and oppress us. Instead, we went onto the streets. Instead of driving us into the closet, it drove us out. And people realised that “gay” was not “them” but “us” and “ours”, straight people’s brothers and sisters, and friends and favourite actors (thank you Ian McKellen) and favourite rabbis (thank you too, Rabbi Lionel Blue).
These laws will be challenged, and in being challenged will be talked about, and in being talked about people will find themselves looking around and realising that they see straight people getting divorces every day, but that nice lesbian/gay couple down the road have been together for years, and you know, they help out with the community drives, and the parades, and the charities and well….wouldn’t it be nice to dance at their wedding?
And of course, the wedding industry has an agenda utterly separate from the religion industry.
Thanks, Jaibe! That makes sense, in some twisted, xenphobic way! 😉
This whole gay marriage issue really has me flummoxed. I mean, just how shaky are these people’s marriages that my brother-in-law or my godfather marrying their partners would threaten them? I’ve never found gay marriage to be a threat to my (straight) one. Hell, the more happily comitted couples out there for my kids to see, the more role models for them when they end up in relationships of their own some day. And using the law as a tool to discriminate is simply unamerican. And finally (forgive my rant, but I’m on a roll here), why the hell are the “small government” republicans so eager to legislate what goes on in our families? I mean, isn’t that the very definition of intrusive government?
As a Canadian, I would like to add to the discussion of gay marriage. Our recently elected Conservative Prime Minister and much of his party intend to re-open the debate and have a national referrendum to revoke the allowance of gay marriage. Most of the country, even the Bloc (Quebec Separatist party) says it’s a closed case and that any sort of backtracking is a waste of time, but it seems that there will always be people out there whose goal is to undermine the existence and lives of others. Particularly when they delude themselves that their own situation is somehow jeapordized by inclusion. Trudeau said, and I agree, that “the Government has no business in the bedrooms of the nations.” Leaps and bounds may be made, but it’s never far from my mind that sliding back can happen all too easily.
I think it’s time to demand something from the Democrats we helped put into power. (In fact, some pundits here saying that putting lesbian and gay marriage on the ballot in Wisconsin backfired for the Repubs because it brought out a lot of people who wanted to vote against the amendment and who also voted for Dems. Go figure.)
Anyway, at the federal level, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act is the least they could do for us. At the state level, well, here the Dems are talking about introducing yet another constitutional amendment that bars discrimination against us, and there’s also talk of introducing a repeal of the amendment just passed. I fear the latter would be premature since I think it’ll take some serious education to change people’s views so that we wouldn’t just get kicked in the head again.
On the other hand, I work at the UW-Madison, where they believe that the mission of the university extends to the borders of the state, and I’m asking the UW to take on the job of educating the populace on lesbian and gay issues.
But let’s all consider ways we might hold the newly elected Democrats accountable for including us under their big tent and actually doing something to improve the status of our rights…!
A quick calculation shows that about 275,000 Wisconsin Dems voted *for* the ban and Democratic candidates. They love our help on other progressive issues ( how many of us have worked long and hard on issues of reproductive choice?) but they literally will not lift a finger to help us.
As long as Republicans and Democrats exist in dynamic tension only with each other, nothing will change. Democrats can’t go “too far”, because they exist as an opposite to Republicans. It’s like saying “I will never do anything you say.” Which is fine, except it means you can control my behavior since I define myself in terms of someone else.
In the pledge drive thread I wrote about feeling like I missed something because I came out so late. I’ve just realized that for all the heartache I had in feeling like a weirdo, I missed just as much heartache for being so non-existent.
And I guess in a bizarre way, all this anger and foolishness and people voting against “those gays” is attention. At least the topic exists. And if enough people come out it will get to be just too exhausting to waste all that angry, ignorant energy.
Reminds me of a story that still astounds and amuses me. I go to a Lutheran church which is tiny and doesn’t have much else to distinguish it. Maybe 25 people attend on a Sunday. My partner and I are out and were at one time the whole Sunday School department. Our organist came out about a year ago. It’s a gay-friendly place pretty much by default – it’s really an “everybody friendly” place. And STILL… at a book study one of the members who is VERY involved in things was sitting RIGHT ACROSS THE TABLE from me and my partner and said (this is an actual direct quote) “I don’t know what I would do if I met a gay person.”
He was looking right at us and he said he didn’t know what he would do. He knew us. He had asked us to be on the church council! But he didn’t know what he would do if he met a gay person. I never cease to be astounded at the denial that people can live. They love me, they love what I do, they want me to fit into their lives… so they just edit out that part.
I wanted to look straight at him and say “I don’t know what I would do if I met a stupid person…” 😉
Please ask your”newly elected”-well hell, just ask whoever represents you to please pass the Federal Non-Discrimination Act! Who cares about a wedding if you can be fired, denied housing, and whatever else they feel like taking away from you, and it’s perfectly legal? And it is, in my state.
In 2003, I lost my job because my employer heard from someone about my “lifestyle”, and there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it. I called the ACLU, the EEOC, the Labor Relations Board-nothing,nothing, nothing. To me, this is just as important, maybe even more important than the freedom to marry. Come January, bug the hell out of ’em–they owe us!
Unfortunately, it does not always matter whether somebody knows or even “loves” a gay person. People don’t automatically become accepting, enthusiastic gay-rights proponents just because a family member or friend is gay.
My parents and sister have chosen not to support my “lifestyle”. I’m sure they’d never vote for gay marriage or suddenly become sympathetic to gay people in general, just because of me. My family’s denial means I walk a “don’t ask, don’t tell” line that’s horribly awkward. Actually, sometimes I think my being a lesbian actually makes my family more “against” gays in general — Because they’re so sure that I’ve made a mistake, I’m not “really” gay, I’m just confused. I lived half my life as a straight person (marriage, kids, etc.), so now my family sees ALL gay people as they see me: They’re sure I wasn’t born this way, I’m just chosing to be ‘different’ — And any minute now, I’m going to change my mind, run off with some guy, and (phew!) their nightmare will be over.
Coming out has been a very disappointing experience here in suburban Ohio. Pretty much every time I tell a friend, or one of my kids’ friends’ moms, or one of the other Brownie Troop leaders, all I’ve done is put someone else on a list of people who will be avoiding me in the future.
“Mainstream” suburban America is still very homophobic. If you could see through my eyes, you’d realize why these anti-gay-marriage constitutional amendments pass so easily. Out here among all the mean-spirited soccer moms, things are really, truly scary.
My theory of why is that people are afraid to be partners with equals. They find relationships complicated and scary power scenerios, and they want to know that they can relax around half the world. When you tell them that they aren’t home free even when they are sitting in a men’s club or chatting with other moms while watching soccer, it makes them nervous.
It is very weird, but I have had a fair number of straight women tell me “I don’t want to be *pals* with a lover!” Think of Liz Phair “It’s harder to be friends than lovers/ and you shouldn’t try to mix the two/ because if you do and you’re still unhappy/ you know the problem is you.”
I think this is why it’s more likely homosexuality is acceptable to the left than the right — they are already down with egalitarianism, starting at home.
I was just reading something by Stephanie Coontz about how Freud’s refocussing on sex drastically reduced the intimacy of ordinary friendships which is a shame and has had s chilling effect on society. http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/07/opinion/edcoontz.php
Another reason to be grateful for living in Vermont:
Public Television Interview with Alison Bechdel
Host Fran Stoddard will interview cartoonist Alison Bechdel on the show Profile on Vermont Public Television this month. Bechdel is the creator of Dykes to Watch Out For comic strip that OITM runs each month, and wrote the graphic novel Fun Home that was published earlier this year.
The Profile interview with Bechdel will air twice: From 7:30-8 pm on Monday, November 20, and from 1:30-2 pm on Sunday, November 26.
Nobody said it was gonna be easy. But on this pivotal issue in the culture war I know which side is going, eventually, to win. I’m 60 and I expect it in my lifetime. Stonewall was 1969. Look where we are in just 40 years. Keep your eye on Dred Scott.
I have real difficulty following the elections since the system in the USA seems so weird to me. Are there REALLY only 2 political parties?
Here in Finland we`re celebrating the fact that 100 years ago this country was the first one allowing wimming to wote.
There are more than 2 political parties, but the Republicans and the Democrats are the only ones large enought to get any serious federal money or other goodies. The green party was a kinda maybe back in 2000, Kinda like Eugene Debs and the socialists almost had a chance back in the teens/20s.
I’m fuckin’ psyched the Republicans are out of power, but they’re still there and the democrats sure ain’t no Green Party, or Socialists for that matter.
This is the party that brought you Welfare Reform and the defense of Marriage act.
While I don’t feel as devestated as I did lest presidential election, i don’t things are going to be all bunnies and roses now. but thank god! The headline from wither the new youk post or some other new yourk tabloid yesterday was “Don’t Let the Door Hit You On the Way Out!”
Just watched a very intersting piece on CNN about Gay Pride in Isreal. Apparently they had a huge pride celebration and they seem to be suffering from the same difficulties as we are here in the states. Some were calling homosexuals mentally ill and an abomination! It’s the first large piece on sexuality I have seen from another part of the world and I think it’s facinating that others around the world are suffering as we are. Is there an international Gay Pride organization?
Lauren: I spent almost 2 weeks in rural Ohio during the first part of September, Delaware, just outside of Columbus. I felt like I was walking on eggshells most of the time due to my short hair and attire. I agree, rural America is a very scary place sometimes. I was sitting in Bunn’s restaurant and I got plenty of “looks”. People were quite gracious in between the “looks” that told me I was “odd, out of place, didn’t fit in and needed to conform”. For that reason, along with many others, I was so happy to get home to more relaxed Oregon.
You and I have a lot in common. I was married to a guy for TWENTY-TWO years, trying so hard to force myself into a so called “normal” life, because I thought I could somehow change myself, and that would make me happy. I also wanted a family with children, and I thought that was the only way possible I could do that. (I actually identified a lot with Alison’s father in “Fun Home”).
I have two sisters that talk to me only once a year (Christmas). I have nieces and nephews that don’t even know
who I am. (they cash my birthday checks though…hmmm.)But I have sister and a brother that have actually come back around, and my mother is beginning to do the same. My dad has Alzheimer’s, and has forgotten about it–I guess I could come out to him once more, but I’d just have do do it again tomorrow…
I don’t know how long you’ve been out; it sounds like your kids are still young, and that’s a really tough time. You might want to check and see where the closest LGBT parenting group is in your area. That may give you some needed support. But I’m here to tell you, it really does get better. And I’ll bet that even though it’s hard right now, you wouldn’t go back “in” for anything.
Similar story for me. Married to a man for 13 years. Tried to do the “normal” life. Felt so out of place but not knowing why. Had two great sons who are very accepting of me now….but trying to raise them while being out….horrors! Father, how has now passed, told me that he “still loved me” even though he knew I was a lesbian for many years before coming out. Never could have come out with my mother alive. She was horrible, dropping cruel hints about the “lezzies” who lived down the street from her…..how disgusting they were…..on and on. We all share so much together. Thank you Alison for the forum to share not only you but ourselves.
Regarding garnering support for queer marriage. At one point I had a very close friend throughout my college years. (She was a few years older.) Politically liberal, never seemed to freak out about anybody…
Life went on, I finished college, we both settled down in our various ways (me remaining bi and poly, her to straight monogamy). And increasingly, when we spent time together, she’d ask me things like “But don’t you agree that two straight parents are /optimal/? I mean, yeah, it’s better to have two gay parents than to be in a horrible situation, but…” Or then there was the monogamy superiority rant. I’d mention that my female partner was having problems with despression, and she’d say something like “I think you’d just be so much happier if you were monogamous.” (Which is particularly funny, as she’d known me during my one monogamous relationship, and I’d never been so insecure and miserable in my life.)
Eventually we stopped having much to do with eachother. Which was sad — we’d been friends for years. And there were other things going on; she didn’t like my career (higher stress but much higher pay than hers) she was horribly jealous of the money I made, she didn’t much care for my partners…
But anyhow, I have not doubt that she’d vote for any measure supporting equal protections in some kind of general sense. I know she’d vote for domestic partnerships. I actually think she would vote for queer marriage… but only because she has enough gay friends that she’s aware of the extent to which that too is a civil rights issue. And I’m not sure about marriage.
She generally has a pretty strong sense of “live and let live”, and she likes having friends with diverse backgrounds. But she also is very attached to some kind of normative set of values that I don’t really understand, and they’re really, really important to her. She doesn’t like discrimination being written into the law, and yet her way, being straight, monogamous, resolutely middle-middle class, is best, everyone would be happier is they were that way too, and it’s really important to her that everyone agree with that. (Or at least that I do.)
I think of her whenever I run into stats about how many people support equal protection and yet completely freak out about queer marriage.
(And for the record, the people I know who are surviving parenting the best are all in triads. Who ever came up with the idea that two parents are enough?)
My kids are 10, 8 and 5. I was married for 13 years.
I remind myself often to be patient with my family. They’ve only known for a year, and they are very conservative.
And you’re so completely right. I wouldn’t trade being out for anything in the world. I’m very happy with such freedom and liberation — It feels so amazing! It was a very serious depression that started me on this coming-out journey — And now, the depression is totally gone.
To get back on topic, though…My biggest pro-gay-marriage argument is this: I’m pretty sure I’d have come out YEARS earlier and spared my ex-husband and kids the pain of a miserable marriage and inevitable divorce, if we lived in a gay-tolerant society. You know: “Let us marry each other, and we’ll stop marrying YOU!”
Did I already mention that the legislature here in Massachusetts unanimously killed the one man-one woman marriage amendment and then postponed having to vote on the anti-gay marriage amendment until January, effectively killing it for at least two more years.
Re the question about an international LGBT organization: there is ILGA (International Lesbian and Gay Association) which has been around since 1978, fighting discrimination against LGBT people worldwide. Check out their website at http://www.ilga.org
And, yes, thanks to Alison for providing this space besides the great art that’s been sustaining us for so long.
Massachusetts and California have so much to celebrate, an African-American governor that’s a Democrat, a death blow to the gay marriage ban and on the west coast we have Senators Boxer and Feinstein who will chair Senate panels that allocate money to defense contractors and to tacking environmental issues and we have Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. Governator Ahnold is going to have to be nice to our Senators of he wants any federal funding and as for Mitt, he knows what exit he can get off at!
We need to send a message to the proponents of gay marriage bans and tell them that we pay the same taxes as they do but we don’t get to enjoy the priveleges, freedoms and benefits that their constitutions allow. If they want to bring “God” into the matter, let’s remind them that we are not a government under theocratic rule and that the a good number of Christian religious conservatives (that speak out against gays) have been caught with their pants down!
“Had two great sons who are very accepting of me now…but trying to raise them while being out…horrors!”
Explain, please? Or maybe, don’t…Do I really want to know what you mean? What “horrors” await me?
I’m not out to my kids yet. I still live in fear that my ex will re-start the custody battle. And in this super-conservative county, I am pretty sure “She’s a lesbian” still has a lot of teeth.
RE: the whole same sex marriage thing here in Massachusetts.
One thing we’re all expecting is the repeal of an ancient 1900s era law forbidding the in state marriage of out of state couples if their state of residence prohibited their marriage.
Passed to keep interracial couples from getting married in MA and returning to their home state.
Romney was really keen on enforcing that law. A LOT of local town hall clerks and registrars ignored the law and issued licenses anyway. There are times I SO love this place!
Once that thing is repealed, come on in, get married, then go home and make a ruckus about demanding your rights as a married couple.
Or stay in Massachusetts and make a home here. There’s always room here for decent, loving families.
Massachusetts was a great place but I was stupid and moved to Reno, Nevada to be with a jerk (ready entry 20 on Eighties Katie) and ending up staying a few years too many. Push came to a final shove that motivated me to leave Nevada and that was a ballot initiative to ban same sex marriage that was voted into law by 66% of the voters.
Helllooo! We’re talking about a state whose main industries are legalized gambling, prostitution and access to alcohol on a 24/7/365 basis. Those amenities are not conducive to healthy lifestyles but vices that DO threaten (and destroy) marriages and families. The proponents for wanting to ban same-sex marriages claimed to care about families but wages in this state are so low that many struggle to make ends meets.
Over 33% of Nevada’s children are poor, neglected and without any healthcare and many of them live in weekly motels while their parents work at minimum wage casino jobs.
I was disappointed with the gay community and the GLBT organizations that did almost nothing to counter it and they were NO better than those who voted “yes”. I lost all respect for gays in Nevada for not doing anything to stop it and they sure as hell did not listen to my concerns and the discrimination that I endured living there. I often wondered if they were oversexed because they simply took it in the you-know-what and they must enjoy torture!
Not sure who started the married-coming out-raising kids thread…but it sounds all too familiar. Mine are in their teens now (one son, one daughter) and have been awesome from the beginning. But then, they’re community theatre kids, so it’s not like any of it was a new concept to begin with. 🙂 Daughter, as a freshman in high school, is trying to get a gay/straight alliance chapter started. Yeah, they’re great kids.
To Lauren, Deb, Deena, and all the other lesbian moms that started out on the wrong “team”:
One night after Christmas (one more ruined holiday) I had a dream where I kept hearing someone say to me ,”You’ve got to get out of here, or you’ll die”. I woke up, knowing that I had to leave my marraige. I don’t know why things worked out after many yers of trying, but I was able to finally get out and come out. I used to think that voice mant I would maybe have a heart attack from stress, and I’d go that way. Later I thought that maybe I was afraid of my husband hurting me. But now I believe I was trying to tell myself that maybe if I stayed, I would lose it and do myself in.Who knows, if I hadn’t gotten out, there might have a truck out there with my name on it.
Proposal tweaks marriage amendment
Adds discrimination ban
By Judith Davidoff
Just days after Wisconsin voters approved a constitutional ban on same-sex marriages, state Sen. Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton, is drafting a proposed amendment to the state constitution that would ban discrimination and open the way for state-sanctioned civil unions.
Erpenbach said Friday his proposal would honor the ban on gay marriages, but rectify potential problems in the second sentence of the referendum, which he said stripped legal rights from straight and same-sex unmarried couples. Those protections include the right to receive domestic partner benefits and have legally binding contracts, including wills.
“It doesn’t matter if you’re gay or straight, everybody is affected by that who is not married,” Erpenbach said.
89 Responses to “Phew.”
hey … hey .. hey
*pop*
Champagne !
Don’t really understand your ballot system but it seems that Bush is getting a wonderful coup de pied au cul as we say here … and it feels sooooooooo good.
Fingers crossed for Virginia / Montana ! ..
🙂
Wait, what’s that noise? Is it Clarice achieving orgasm solely from watching the election coverage?
Interesting inerpretation …
🙂
Well …
Why not ?
interpretation
ahem
On behalf of everyone from the sixth district in Minnesota, I have but one message regarding new Representative Bachmann- I’m sorry. But hey hey, look on the bright side- the country has flipped Bush the finger with the House of Representatives, Montana and Virginia are still up in the air, Missouri has approved stem-cell research, that IDIOTIC ban in South Dakota has actually been DEFEATED (!!!!!!!!), and now Rick Santorum can finally return to what he really loves- homeschooling his children! Have a day, everyone!!!
Congratulations! You did it! All of you American persons who actually went out there and voted! Il reste du champagne, Elisablue?
Now if we Canadians can get rid of our obsolete bible-thumpers… why, bisexual collective weddings are practically around the corner!
Champagne pour tout le monde !!
🙂
DeLand–my condolences on Bachmann; I got to vote for Keith Ellison. For all you non-Minnesotans, he’s the first African-American to represent MN and the first Muslim in Congress.(Although I have concerns about him…but that’s for another time.) Bachmann can nicely supplant Santorum for a true nexus of hate-mongering for the next two years. I think I’ll email Mr. Savage to see if he’ll run a contest a la Santorum for Ms. Bachmann. Maybe something lesbian-related this time, as she seems to have such a problem with us!
To Elisablue and Alex the Bold-I’m herw to tell you it is possible!!
And as a person whose family base is also rooted in
South Dakota; I’m so proud of you guys for getting rid of that stupid ban. That’s more like the place I remember and love (George McGovern spilled coffee on my Grandma’s kitchen table in the summer of 1972-I come from a long line of bleeding heart liberals). And our Missouri stem cell initiative passed!!!
Now just waiting for Virginia and Montana…
*ahem*-that’s here-now I’m blaming the typos on giddiness!
Many of us dykes to watch out for in Wisconsin (and our GBT brothers and sisters) are feeling a decided disonance this morning…overall “we” won with the changes in the Congress, the Governors, the state legislators…and yet by a margin of 59% to 41% the people of Wisconsin wrote unequal rights for lesbians and gay men into our state Constitution.
I think this is an issue on which people’s feelings and opinions definitely evolve…hell, the first time I heard a young dyke say she wanted to get married, I thought, “huh? didn’t she just say she was a lesbian…? we don’t do that…” It took me a while to think through the issues and figure out that of course we should have equal access to marriage and the rights/protections guaranteed therein, and I’ve been a butch lesbian feminist activist since the 70s.
So of course it will take an even longer while for straight folks and others to see that this is an equal rights issue whose time will eventually come. It falls to us who have just been kicked in the guts by our fellow citizens to pick ourselves up and start all over again. Come out come out come out.
In 20 or 30 or 50 years when the citizens of Wisconsin and elsewhere rise up and remove this blight from our state constitutions, it will happen because more lesbians and gay men have come out and been their true selves for all to see.
As for me? I felt compelled to my DYKE t-shirt to work today…
Yep, I’m another Wisconsinite who, at the moment, is feeling more loss than victory. Haven’t gotten around the emotional bend yet to celebrate the national shift.
All along I’ve had a wildly conflicting sense of what would happen. I’ve thought for a while that we’d lose on this one because of the political makeup of the state as a whole, but I also did the whole door-to-door thing and actually encountered people whose minds / votes could be changed, so I guess there was some corner of my heart that was hoping for a better outcome.
I was predicting we’d lose by a small margin, and was expecting to feel bad about that because of the possibility that with a little more canvassing, etc. we might have won, but the margin by which we lost was huge, completely shocking, much worse than polls have been suggesting. The deep resonance of having *new* constitutional language that says “you are less than” is just, well, deep. I teach at a college where the faculty are a bunch of liberals but the students are pretty conservative, and when I go into class tomorrow I think I’m going to have to struggle against the instinct to assume they all voted for this.
Bleah. I’ve left downtrodden comments on several blogs and a morose post on my own blog this morning. Arizona’s gay marriage amendment was narrowly defeated (thanks to a campaign that emphasized the proposition’s deletrious effects on straight couples, with nary a mention of gay folks), but seven other states passed theirs handily. Colorado went a step further in defeating a referendum that would have extended basic rights (hospital visitation, funeral arrangements) to gay couples. So I feel rather ill this morning; maybe in a few days I’ll feel more like celebrating.
Good. Very good. Definitely better at the very least.
So the next tstage is to see what the Democrats do.
Just announced that Rummy’s to resign!!! Someone had to take the fall and it’s him! Dubya looking very rattled live on TV.
As people say, let’s see what the Democrats do and how things move on nationally and internationally.
Could it be that the YouTube video and the election victory will be the sharp slap and cold towel that bring Clarice back to her senses?
Yeeeehaaaaa! Democrats have the house and Rumsfeld is out of there! What do we know about the new guy, Robert Gates besides he was director of the CIA for a couple of years? A Democrat-run house always spells relief for programs and non profits who have been struggling for years with Bush in power. Now maybe we can squeeze some of that $ into housing programs, drug & alcohol rehab, health care, Headstart and domestic violence/rape/sexual assault programs that have nearly closed due to lack of funding.
Sorry for posting two times in a row here……….but how could I forget??????
GO Speaker Pelosi! First female speaker of the house ever! And Cindy Sheehan? She is still out there next door to Bush but is celebrating today!
Ahhh, finally, after library banning fiasco, I can at last say I am proud to be a Missourian! Our stem cell initiative and minimum wage hike passed, we put another Democratic seat in the Senate, and right now it’s all sunny and warm and I just feel good inside.
I actually went back and read the strip from Spawn Of.. after Clinton won, where there still was that giddy optimism about him and Clarice was (perhaps for the only time in the series) happy about the state of American politics.
On a more positive note, with a Democratic majority in the House and hopefully Senate, the chances of a national amendment to ban our marriage rights is slim. I also try to take the long view of these things. We haven’t been fighting for equality all that long, and historically, the battle for rights takes a long time. Also, Rummy is history, which makes me giddy!
Wow! Thanks for the Rumsfeld news! I read it first on DTWOF!
Woo hoo!
The Rummy resignation is just a symbolic victory — I’m sure the Bush White House is not going to improve as a result — but it’s such a great schadenfreude moment!
As for Virginia . . . if we lose, I think I’m going to fly to Virginia and personally egg the house of the Green Party candidate who won 2% of the vote. (She considered dropping out just before the election but didn’t.)
i’m just happy for clarice!!!
Thanks for the condolences, Judy. I actually live in Minneapolis, but I opted to vote absentee in my hometown of St.Cloud, in hopes of helping to kick Michelle Bachmann’s Bible-butt out the door. But, despite her being equally hateworthy as Santorum, she is not (and likely never will be) as powerful as he was; best-case scenario, she’ll accomplish nothing. (As her record in the state legislature has proven, most of her bills are too absurd to survive.)
My condolences to our friends in Wisconsin. But it’s true, now that we have the house there seems to be less threat of a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage. By the way-
RUMSFELD RESIGNED!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!
(Who cares if the Republicans are trying to steal our thunder; I’ll take it!)
My sister lives in Colorado. I’m afraid to ask which way she voted. (She’s a Dem, but finds the idea of homosexualtiy “icky”.) And my condolences to you in WI. Still, the news acrosss the country is very, very good, and as a born-and-bred Pennsylvanian, I am doing one big happy dance over Santorum!
And now that Montana has been called for the Dems, we all have to keep everything crossed for Virginia!
I’m watching you guys closely, I’m sure I’ll learn it here as soon as the last ballot is counted!
Dear Dana,
I am totally agreement with you re the need to come out and be counted (“In 20 or 30 or 50 years when the citizens of Wisconsin and elsewhere rise up and remove this blight from our state constitutions, it will happen because more lesbians and gay men have come out and been their true selves for all to see.) But I DON’T think it will take 20 or 30 or 50 years–the USA repealed the prohibition on drinking alcohol in 13 years! I think we are truly on the road to equality in this country –and in Wisconsin we finally have our State Senate back!
okay, 13 sounds good to me–
:^]
well, i’m excited about the Dems taking the house, (even more excited that they kept it. after 2000 you can never be sure).
however, the grope-anator was reelected out here in california. not unexpected, but depressing nonetheless.
god i hope something changes.
“So of course it will take an even longer while for straight folks and others to see that this is an equal rights issue whose time will eventually come.”
Please, make that ‘more’ straight folks…
There’s a LOT of us who have actively and consistantly supported and worked hard for the equal rights of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
If Arizona can reject an anti-same sex marriage amendment, it can happen anywhere.
No retreat, baby, no surrender!
I suppose I really SHOULD update this rant I wrote LONG ago. (It can be dated by the Ellen DeGeneris coming out reference)
http://www.gis.net/~cht/gayrant.html
To reflect that there have been some changes since then.
You’ve more straight allies than you imagine.
Hey, it looks like the Virginia senate seat goes to the Democrats barring any recount vote. News just came in that the Democrats control the senate too. Today is a good day!
All I can say is, I’m sorry.
Do I wish I could have done more? Hell, yeah. All I can say is: You guys who are running Fair Wisconsin, don’t stop! Nothing happens overnight. We’ll tackle it again, and soon. The thing is, meddling in people’s personal lives is *supposed* to be against the conservative stance in the first place, so we *should* be able to even smack it in on their own ideological ground.
This is only a battle, not the war itself. Sooner or later, the majority will realize that all people deserve equal civil rights.
I have been high on life all day due to; all the big election results I’ve been hearing about; I found a twenty dollar bill in the pocket of my old jacket; and my kid finally got a job.
But I’ve stopped trippin’ long enough to hear about the homophobic decisions made in states like Wisconsin and Colorado, and I want to extend my sympathies to everyone out there who is hurting. Because I’ve been there before, Aug. of 2004 to be exact, when Missouri decided it would be just fine and dandy to forbid us not only to marry, but to not even have civil unions, jump the broom, or whatever. What really hurt was that this passed by such a high margin-I believe it was about 70% of the vote. I thought, “I knew some people in the state hate us, but 70%?”
How did I miss that? It was a slap in the face that stung until Nov., when the Dems. lost, and I though the Feds would be showing up any day to cart me off to Gay People Island.
But that didn’t happen. At first, people were pretty upset, and a little scared. Then a strange thing happened. I have actually read, heard (in the media), and heard (in person) Republicans saying they might have made a mistake. That perhaps their party had tapped into their fear of gays and used that to win the election. That maybe there were worse things in this world than two men kissing each other (like wars where they kill each other).
Missouri still has that amendment. But I’m starting to have a glimmer of hope for things to come. That maybe I’ll actually see our amendment repealed, and yours too. Because once the rhetoric dies down, and they start going about their lives, they’ll realize that someone they love is gay. Or they’ll read about a hate crime, or some evil thing the Westboro Baptist Church did. And they’ll wonder; “Is that me ? Am I like that?” Then they’ll be ashamed. And then the change will begin.
To Daña and other Wisconsinites:
Yes, it is difficult. I have a heavy heart today. I’m scared for my partner and I — perhaps we will up and move to Massachusetts or Vermont ourselves.
BUT — people change. When I came out as a lesbian 10 years ago, my parents were rabidly homophobic.
Yesterday, my 60-year-old, fundamentalist Christian Hispanic mother voted against the ban. S
She doesn’t believe in discrimination. (!)
We are bringing the change and our friends and family are coming with us.
I live in Wisconsin and my joy is surely tempered by the amendment results. I’ve had it with this state–I’m outta here. I’m moving back to my native Rhode Island before things get any worse here.
Replying to Deb who asked what we know about Robert Gates, Rummy’s replacement: This from Daily Kos “Owing to his senior status in the CIA, Gates was close to many figures who played significant roles in the Iran/contra affair and was in a position to have known of their activities.”
Which means he’s experienced in cover-up. Great time to run a shredding business on Capitol Hill.
This is the first time I’ve woken up to good news after an election in many, many years. In addition to the Democratic U.S. Congress, we have a new Democratic governor here in Colorado.
True the Domestic Partnership initiative didn’t pass, but it got 46% of the vote in a fairly conservative state. That’s good. Plus, younger voters tended to vote for it, while older voters did not. In five more years, perhaps it would pass.
Personally though, I didn’t do much to support the referendum (other than stick a yard sign in my flower bed). I felt the campaign sent out a muddled message, proclaiming “it’s about rights, not marriage.” But it was about the rights that married people get and I don’t think calling it domestic partnership or civil union is fooling anyone.
I find it ironic that the people working for the referendum felt it was unfair that gay couples don’t get the benefits that straight married couples do, but no one mentioned that it was unfair that married couples get benefits that single people do. Why shouldn’t my best friend or brother get my social security when I died? Why shouldn’t I be able to designate my neighbor or ex-lover to have hospital visitation rights? All this reliance on just one other person seems rather conservative to me.
Oh yeah, Colorado passed a higher minimum wage too!
If any aspect of the election has got you down, just think of the Senate results in terms of three little words: Supreme Court nominations.
Iran/contra? Argh!!!!!!
On a note close to home to Alison: A socialist senator from Vermont? F’ing A!!!!!
http://jameth.whatthefuck.com/nov2006/8/rumsfeld.jpg
About constitutional ammendments, did you catch this on AP?
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — New Mexico voters have repealed a Jim Crow-era provision that once prohibited Asian immigrants from owning property.
About 70 percent of the voters backed the move to delete the 1921 constitutional amendment.
Since then, federal courts have invalidated such restrictions as unconstitutional discrimination.
Only New Mexico and Florida had the provisions still on the books.
——
So — there’s a precedent for overturning bogus state constitutional ammendments. I think we should really take up this story!
Jaibe–
Only 70 percent backed the repeal?? So 30 percent think banning Asian immigrants from owning property is JUST FINE??! Or were there other choices?
If we assume that NM is a normal state, there seems to be a 30% jerk/idiot margin. It makes getting a constitutional amendment passed by 70% feel like 40%, and somehow that makes me feel better.
Aww – Santorum lost. No wonder – thanks to Dan Savage, I only think of one thing when I see the name “santorum”. That’s gotta hurt your campain… 😉
Colorado. Idaho. South Carolina. South Dakota. Tennessee. Wisconsin. Virginia. I hate to be a downer, but it still feels pretty oppressive around here, especially in Virginia, where the folks just enshrined in the constitution a ban on any kind of contract that even hints at providing benefits that look anything like marriage made between folks of the same sex, and where the newly Democratic senator is an old Republican who has a long history of hating women.
Yeah, it seems like a victory that the amendment only passed with about 56% of the vote and that Allen is gone and the balance has shifted, but we’re screwed in 2008 if the Dems can’t accomplish anything in the next two years. And it won’t be easy for them, especially because of the wreck W has made in Iraq.
As for the Supreme Court, well, that’s already been taken care of, badly for us. The real worry is on the Circuit Courts where W will definitely start pushing through a bunch of hyper-conservative loonies, whom Congress will annoint just because they don’t want to get a reputation for evil partisanship.
Sigh, and sorry.
…In many ways Webb’s victory in Virginia (fingers crossed) is a victory in name only. But caucus power can be beautiful. Vermont independent woooo!! Shout out to Missouri! *rubs Missouri’s widdle head* Annndd Arkansas told Asa Hutchinson to stop peddling his snake oil to voters and go back to selling their souls as a lobbyist. I’m a GRIT and I feel a little better about living in the South this morning.
What the Ev(il)angelicals believe:
GOP=/GOD
What most of US wanted on Tuesday:
GOP=GONE
The donkey can still kick, and it did!
AK–What’s a GRIT?
Allen conceded in Virginia!!!!! YEEEE-HAAAAH!!!
Both houses have now been “liberated!”
Thank the makers!
Pombo got ridden out on a rail. Woo hoo!!!!
GRITS=Girls Raised In The South
Al, et al. — OK, I asked Prof. Google — and the story gets better! Apparently it was against a *federal* law for Asians to be citizens then, so the NM amendment of 1921 just said “aliens” can’t own propert, thus enshrining prejudice by piggy-back. So that may have confused 30% of current NM folk — repealing the amendment actually failed in 2002 when apparently people mistook it for a homeland security thing!
So at least we are now better off than Asians were less than a century ago — and now it is totally inconceivable to choose property owners (or citizens!) by race. So here’s hoping choosing marriage partners by sexual orientation will be equally inconceivable in our lifetimes… (heck, that already is to me!)
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/50834.html
for more, google “asian exclusion act”, here’s an essay from someone http://www.umass.edu/complit/ogscl/jana/janahistoryofimmigration.htm
I was extremely angered by the amendment passing in Wisconsin. There is an enormous divide within Wisconsin on social justice issues, and many young people from the state’s rural areas are very conservative (as I learned from attending graduate school with them in Madison). I was frankly shocked by the xenophobia and homphobia that I dealt with while attending grad school with these folks. It was the first indication of how conservative their communities tend to be.
I know that in Wisconsin, there was a big effort to inform moderate and conservative voters that passing this referendum would hurt ALL couples, not just same-sex couples. I’m not sure what the difference is between the work done on this issue in Arizona versus Wisconsin and I want to find out.
However, the statement on this made by the NGLTF was somewhat encouraging – that two years ago, with 11 such amendments on the ballot, 9 passed by a margin of greater than 60 percent. This year, with eight on the ballot, one did not pass at all, and four more passed by less than 60 percent.
Amy
Re the anti-gay marriage votes.
Have courage my brothers and sisters. They tried something like this in Britain in 1987 with Clause 28 (which forbade “the promotion of pretended family relationships”). It was meant to cow us and oppress us. Instead, we went onto the streets. Instead of driving us into the closet, it drove us out. And people realised that “gay” was not “them” but “us” and “ours”, straight people’s brothers and sisters, and friends and favourite actors (thank you Ian McKellen) and favourite rabbis (thank you too, Rabbi Lionel Blue).
These laws will be challenged, and in being challenged will be talked about, and in being talked about people will find themselves looking around and realising that they see straight people getting divorces every day, but that nice lesbian/gay couple down the road have been together for years, and you know, they help out with the community drives, and the parades, and the charities and well….wouldn’t it be nice to dance at their wedding?
And of course, the wedding industry has an agenda utterly separate from the religion industry.
Thanks, Jaibe! That makes sense, in some twisted, xenphobic way! 😉
This whole gay marriage issue really has me flummoxed. I mean, just how shaky are these people’s marriages that my brother-in-law or my godfather marrying their partners would threaten them? I’ve never found gay marriage to be a threat to my (straight) one. Hell, the more happily comitted couples out there for my kids to see, the more role models for them when they end up in relationships of their own some day. And using the law as a tool to discriminate is simply unamerican. And finally (forgive my rant, but I’m on a roll here), why the hell are the “small government” republicans so eager to legislate what goes on in our families? I mean, isn’t that the very definition of intrusive government?
As a Canadian, I would like to add to the discussion of gay marriage. Our recently elected Conservative Prime Minister and much of his party intend to re-open the debate and have a national referrendum to revoke the allowance of gay marriage. Most of the country, even the Bloc (Quebec Separatist party) says it’s a closed case and that any sort of backtracking is a waste of time, but it seems that there will always be people out there whose goal is to undermine the existence and lives of others. Particularly when they delude themselves that their own situation is somehow jeapordized by inclusion. Trudeau said, and I agree, that “the Government has no business in the bedrooms of the nations.” Leaps and bounds may be made, but it’s never far from my mind that sliding back can happen all too easily.
Hi, all–
I think it’s time to demand something from the Democrats we helped put into power. (In fact, some pundits here saying that putting lesbian and gay marriage on the ballot in Wisconsin backfired for the Repubs because it brought out a lot of people who wanted to vote against the amendment and who also voted for Dems. Go figure.)
Anyway, at the federal level, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act is the least they could do for us. At the state level, well, here the Dems are talking about introducing yet another constitutional amendment that bars discrimination against us, and there’s also talk of introducing a repeal of the amendment just passed. I fear the latter would be premature since I think it’ll take some serious education to change people’s views so that we wouldn’t just get kicked in the head again.
On the other hand, I work at the UW-Madison, where they believe that the mission of the university extends to the borders of the state, and I’m asking the UW to take on the job of educating the populace on lesbian and gay issues.
But let’s all consider ways we might hold the newly elected Democrats accountable for including us under their big tent and actually doing something to improve the status of our rights…!
A quick calculation shows that about 275,000 Wisconsin Dems voted *for* the ban and Democratic candidates. They love our help on other progressive issues ( how many of us have worked long and hard on issues of reproductive choice?) but they literally will not lift a finger to help us.
As long as Republicans and Democrats exist in dynamic tension only with each other, nothing will change. Democrats can’t go “too far”, because they exist as an opposite to Republicans. It’s like saying “I will never do anything you say.” Which is fine, except it means you can control my behavior since I define myself in terms of someone else.
In the pledge drive thread I wrote about feeling like I missed something because I came out so late. I’ve just realized that for all the heartache I had in feeling like a weirdo, I missed just as much heartache for being so non-existent.
And I guess in a bizarre way, all this anger and foolishness and people voting against “those gays” is attention. At least the topic exists. And if enough people come out it will get to be just too exhausting to waste all that angry, ignorant energy.
Reminds me of a story that still astounds and amuses me. I go to a Lutheran church which is tiny and doesn’t have much else to distinguish it. Maybe 25 people attend on a Sunday. My partner and I are out and were at one time the whole Sunday School department. Our organist came out about a year ago. It’s a gay-friendly place pretty much by default – it’s really an “everybody friendly” place. And STILL… at a book study one of the members who is VERY involved in things was sitting RIGHT ACROSS THE TABLE from me and my partner and said (this is an actual direct quote) “I don’t know what I would do if I met a gay person.”
He was looking right at us and he said he didn’t know what he would do. He knew us. He had asked us to be on the church council! But he didn’t know what he would do if he met a gay person. I never cease to be astounded at the denial that people can live. They love me, they love what I do, they want me to fit into their lives… so they just edit out that part.
I wanted to look straight at him and say “I don’t know what I would do if I met a stupid person…” 😉
sksdurham, the next time he says this, you need to reply, “why, let me introduce you to my partner”.
Please ask your”newly elected”-well hell, just ask whoever represents you to please pass the Federal Non-Discrimination Act! Who cares about a wedding if you can be fired, denied housing, and whatever else they feel like taking away from you, and it’s perfectly legal? And it is, in my state.
In 2003, I lost my job because my employer heard from someone about my “lifestyle”, and there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it. I called the ACLU, the EEOC, the Labor Relations Board-nothing,nothing, nothing. To me, this is just as important, maybe even more important than the freedom to marry. Come January, bug the hell out of ’em–they owe us!
Regarding tolerance, gay marriage, gay rights, etc.:
Unfortunately, it does not always matter whether somebody knows or even “loves” a gay person. People don’t automatically become accepting, enthusiastic gay-rights proponents just because a family member or friend is gay.
My parents and sister have chosen not to support my “lifestyle”. I’m sure they’d never vote for gay marriage or suddenly become sympathetic to gay people in general, just because of me. My family’s denial means I walk a “don’t ask, don’t tell” line that’s horribly awkward. Actually, sometimes I think my being a lesbian actually makes my family more “against” gays in general — Because they’re so sure that I’ve made a mistake, I’m not “really” gay, I’m just confused. I lived half my life as a straight person (marriage, kids, etc.), so now my family sees ALL gay people as they see me: They’re sure I wasn’t born this way, I’m just chosing to be ‘different’ — And any minute now, I’m going to change my mind, run off with some guy, and (phew!) their nightmare will be over.
Coming out has been a very disappointing experience here in suburban Ohio. Pretty much every time I tell a friend, or one of my kids’ friends’ moms, or one of the other Brownie Troop leaders, all I’ve done is put someone else on a list of people who will be avoiding me in the future.
“Mainstream” suburban America is still very homophobic. If you could see through my eyes, you’d realize why these anti-gay-marriage constitutional amendments pass so easily. Out here among all the mean-spirited soccer moms, things are really, truly scary.
I wish I understood why.
My theory of why is that people are afraid to be partners with equals. They find relationships complicated and scary power scenerios, and they want to know that they can relax around half the world. When you tell them that they aren’t home free even when they are sitting in a men’s club or chatting with other moms while watching soccer, it makes them nervous.
It is very weird, but I have had a fair number of straight women tell me “I don’t want to be *pals* with a lover!” Think of Liz Phair “It’s harder to be friends than lovers/ and you shouldn’t try to mix the two/ because if you do and you’re still unhappy/ you know the problem is you.”
I think this is why it’s more likely homosexuality is acceptable to the left than the right — they are already down with egalitarianism, starting at home.
I was just reading something by Stephanie Coontz about how Freud’s refocussing on sex drastically reduced the intimacy of ordinary friendships which is a shame and has had s chilling effect on society. http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/07/opinion/edcoontz.php
Er… does that help?
“What do we know about the new guy, Robert Gates besides he was director of the CIA for a couple of years?”
There is apparently quite a lot that we should know –
Listen/view Amy Goodman’s November 9 broadcast:
http://www.democracynow.org/
Another reason to be grateful for living in Vermont:
Public Television Interview with Alison Bechdel
Host Fran Stoddard will interview cartoonist Alison Bechdel on the show Profile on Vermont Public Television this month. Bechdel is the creator of Dykes to Watch Out For comic strip that OITM runs each month, and wrote the graphic novel Fun Home that was published earlier this year.
The Profile interview with Bechdel will air twice: From 7:30-8 pm on Monday, November 20, and from 1:30-2 pm on Sunday, November 26.
http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/2006/11nov2006/compass.htm
http://www.vpt.org/tvscheds/daily.html?action=showinfo&SeriesID=11000
(Not, if I can just figure how to get my hands on a TV….)
Nobody said it was gonna be easy. But on this pivotal issue in the culture war I know which side is going, eventually, to win. I’m 60 and I expect it in my lifetime. Stonewall was 1969. Look where we are in just 40 years. Keep your eye on Dred Scott.
I have real difficulty following the elections since the system in the USA seems so weird to me. Are there REALLY only 2 political parties?
Here in Finland we`re celebrating the fact that 100 years ago this country was the first one allowing wimming to wote.
There are more than 2 political parties, but the Republicans and the Democrats are the only ones large enought to get any serious federal money or other goodies. The green party was a kinda maybe back in 2000, Kinda like Eugene Debs and the socialists almost had a chance back in the teens/20s.
I’m fuckin’ psyched the Republicans are out of power, but they’re still there and the democrats sure ain’t no Green Party, or Socialists for that matter.
This is the party that brought you Welfare Reform and the defense of Marriage act.
While I don’t feel as devestated as I did lest presidential election, i don’t things are going to be all bunnies and roses now. but thank god! The headline from wither the new youk post or some other new yourk tabloid yesterday was “Don’t Let the Door Hit You On the Way Out!”
Just watched a very intersting piece on CNN about Gay Pride in Isreal. Apparently they had a huge pride celebration and they seem to be suffering from the same difficulties as we are here in the states. Some were calling homosexuals mentally ill and an abomination! It’s the first large piece on sexuality I have seen from another part of the world and I think it’s facinating that others around the world are suffering as we are. Is there an international Gay Pride organization?
Lauren: I spent almost 2 weeks in rural Ohio during the first part of September, Delaware, just outside of Columbus. I felt like I was walking on eggshells most of the time due to my short hair and attire. I agree, rural America is a very scary place sometimes. I was sitting in Bunn’s restaurant and I got plenty of “looks”. People were quite gracious in between the “looks” that told me I was “odd, out of place, didn’t fit in and needed to conform”. For that reason, along with many others, I was so happy to get home to more relaxed Oregon.
Lauren,
You and I have a lot in common. I was married to a guy for TWENTY-TWO years, trying so hard to force myself into a so called “normal” life, because I thought I could somehow change myself, and that would make me happy. I also wanted a family with children, and I thought that was the only way possible I could do that. (I actually identified a lot with Alison’s father in “Fun Home”).
I have two sisters that talk to me only once a year (Christmas). I have nieces and nephews that don’t even know
who I am. (they cash my birthday checks though…hmmm.)But I have sister and a brother that have actually come back around, and my mother is beginning to do the same. My dad has Alzheimer’s, and has forgotten about it–I guess I could come out to him once more, but I’d just have do do it again tomorrow…
I don’t know how long you’ve been out; it sounds like your kids are still young, and that’s a really tough time. You might want to check and see where the closest LGBT parenting group is in your area. That may give you some needed support. But I’m here to tell you, it really does get better. And I’ll bet that even though it’s hard right now, you wouldn’t go back “in” for anything.
Similar story for me. Married to a man for 13 years. Tried to do the “normal” life. Felt so out of place but not knowing why. Had two great sons who are very accepting of me now….but trying to raise them while being out….horrors! Father, how has now passed, told me that he “still loved me” even though he knew I was a lesbian for many years before coming out. Never could have come out with my mother alive. She was horrible, dropping cruel hints about the “lezzies” who lived down the street from her…..how disgusting they were…..on and on. We all share so much together. Thank you Alison for the forum to share not only you but ourselves.
Regarding garnering support for queer marriage. At one point I had a very close friend throughout my college years. (She was a few years older.) Politically liberal, never seemed to freak out about anybody…
Life went on, I finished college, we both settled down in our various ways (me remaining bi and poly, her to straight monogamy). And increasingly, when we spent time together, she’d ask me things like “But don’t you agree that two straight parents are /optimal/? I mean, yeah, it’s better to have two gay parents than to be in a horrible situation, but…” Or then there was the monogamy superiority rant. I’d mention that my female partner was having problems with despression, and she’d say something like “I think you’d just be so much happier if you were monogamous.” (Which is particularly funny, as she’d known me during my one monogamous relationship, and I’d never been so insecure and miserable in my life.)
Eventually we stopped having much to do with eachother. Which was sad — we’d been friends for years. And there were other things going on; she didn’t like my career (higher stress but much higher pay than hers) she was horribly jealous of the money I made, she didn’t much care for my partners…
But anyhow, I have not doubt that she’d vote for any measure supporting equal protections in some kind of general sense. I know she’d vote for domestic partnerships. I actually think she would vote for queer marriage… but only because she has enough gay friends that she’s aware of the extent to which that too is a civil rights issue. And I’m not sure about marriage.
She generally has a pretty strong sense of “live and let live”, and she likes having friends with diverse backgrounds. But she also is very attached to some kind of normative set of values that I don’t really understand, and they’re really, really important to her. She doesn’t like discrimination being written into the law, and yet her way, being straight, monogamous, resolutely middle-middle class, is best, everyone would be happier is they were that way too, and it’s really important to her that everyone agree with that. (Or at least that I do.)
I think of her whenever I run into stats about how many people support equal protection and yet completely freak out about queer marriage.
(And for the record, the people I know who are surviving parenting the best are all in triads. Who ever came up with the idea that two parents are enough?)
Shadocat,
My kids are 10, 8 and 5. I was married for 13 years.
I remind myself often to be patient with my family. They’ve only known for a year, and they are very conservative.
And you’re so completely right. I wouldn’t trade being out for anything in the world. I’m very happy with such freedom and liberation — It feels so amazing! It was a very serious depression that started me on this coming-out journey — And now, the depression is totally gone.
To get back on topic, though…My biggest pro-gay-marriage argument is this: I’m pretty sure I’d have come out YEARS earlier and spared my ex-husband and kids the pain of a miserable marriage and inevitable divorce, if we lived in a gay-tolerant society. You know: “Let us marry each other, and we’ll stop marrying YOU!”
Deb and others,
A link to an article about the cancelled Jerusalem Gay Pride rally.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003385594_gaypride10.html
Did I already mention that the legislature here in Massachusetts unanimously killed the one man-one woman marriage amendment and then postponed having to vote on the anti-gay marriage amendment until January, effectively killing it for at least two more years.
Bsoton GLOBE article here
(hope the HTML works!)
Our soon to be ex governor is beside himself over this.
Sucks to be you, Mitt.
Re the question about an international LGBT organization: there is ILGA (International Lesbian and Gay Association) which has been around since 1978, fighting discrimination against LGBT people worldwide. Check out their website at http://www.ilga.org
And, yes, thanks to Alison for providing this space besides the great art that’s been sustaining us for so long.
Massachusetts and California have so much to celebrate, an African-American governor that’s a Democrat, a death blow to the gay marriage ban and on the west coast we have Senators Boxer and Feinstein who will chair Senate panels that allocate money to defense contractors and to tacking environmental issues and we have Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. Governator Ahnold is going to have to be nice to our Senators of he wants any federal funding and as for Mitt, he knows what exit he can get off at!
We need to send a message to the proponents of gay marriage bans and tell them that we pay the same taxes as they do but we don’t get to enjoy the priveleges, freedoms and benefits that their constitutions allow. If they want to bring “God” into the matter, let’s remind them that we are not a government under theocratic rule and that the a good number of Christian religious conservatives (that speak out against gays) have been caught with their pants down!
Deb wrote:
“Had two great sons who are very accepting of me now…but trying to raise them while being out…horrors!”
Explain, please? Or maybe, don’t…Do I really want to know what you mean? What “horrors” await me?
I’m not out to my kids yet. I still live in fear that my ex will re-start the custody battle. And in this super-conservative county, I am pretty sure “She’s a lesbian” still has a lot of teeth.
To Deb:
Just continue being a good mother and be yourself but if the questiosn comes up about being gay then tell the truth.
RE: the whole same sex marriage thing here in Massachusetts.
One thing we’re all expecting is the repeal of an ancient 1900s era law forbidding the in state marriage of out of state couples if their state of residence prohibited their marriage.
Passed to keep interracial couples from getting married in MA and returning to their home state.
Romney was really keen on enforcing that law. A LOT of local town hall clerks and registrars ignored the law and issued licenses anyway. There are times I SO love this place!
Once that thing is repealed, come on in, get married, then go home and make a ruckus about demanding your rights as a married couple.
Or stay in Massachusetts and make a home here. There’s always room here for decent, loving families.
Massachusetts was a great place but I was stupid and moved to Reno, Nevada to be with a jerk (ready entry 20 on Eighties Katie) and ending up staying a few years too many. Push came to a final shove that motivated me to leave Nevada and that was a ballot initiative to ban same sex marriage that was voted into law by 66% of the voters.
Helllooo! We’re talking about a state whose main industries are legalized gambling, prostitution and access to alcohol on a 24/7/365 basis. Those amenities are not conducive to healthy lifestyles but vices that DO threaten (and destroy) marriages and families. The proponents for wanting to ban same-sex marriages claimed to care about families but wages in this state are so low that many struggle to make ends meets.
Over 33% of Nevada’s children are poor, neglected and without any healthcare and many of them live in weekly motels while their parents work at minimum wage casino jobs.
I was disappointed with the gay community and the GLBT organizations that did almost nothing to counter it and they were NO better than those who voted “yes”. I lost all respect for gays in Nevada for not doing anything to stop it and they sure as hell did not listen to my concerns and the discrimination that I endured living there. I often wondered if they were oversexed because they simply took it in the you-know-what and they must enjoy torture!
Not sure who started the married-coming out-raising kids thread…but it sounds all too familiar. Mine are in their teens now (one son, one daughter) and have been awesome from the beginning. But then, they’re community theatre kids, so it’s not like any of it was a new concept to begin with. 🙂 Daughter, as a freshman in high school, is trying to get a gay/straight alliance chapter started. Yeah, they’re great kids.
To Lauren, Deb, Deena, and all the other lesbian moms that started out on the wrong “team”:
One night after Christmas (one more ruined holiday) I had a dream where I kept hearing someone say to me ,”You’ve got to get out of here, or you’ll die”. I woke up, knowing that I had to leave my marraige. I don’t know why things worked out after many yers of trying, but I was able to finally get out and come out. I used to think that voice mant I would maybe have a heart attack from stress, and I’d go that way. Later I thought that maybe I was afraid of my husband hurting me. But now I believe I was trying to tell myself that maybe if I stayed, I would lose it and do myself in.Who knows, if I hadn’t gotten out, there might have a truck out there with my name on it.
Just one more note from Wisconsin–
The whole story can be found at: http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=107059&ntpid=1
Proposal tweaks marriage amendment
Adds discrimination ban
By Judith Davidoff
Just days after Wisconsin voters approved a constitutional ban on same-sex marriages, state Sen. Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton, is drafting a proposed amendment to the state constitution that would ban discrimination and open the way for state-sanctioned civil unions.
Erpenbach said Friday his proposal would honor the ban on gay marriages, but rectify potential problems in the second sentence of the referendum, which he said stripped legal rights from straight and same-sex unmarried couples. Those protections include the right to receive domestic partner benefits and have legally binding contracts, including wills.
“It doesn’t matter if you’re gay or straight, everybody is affected by that who is not married,” Erpenbach said.
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